Shutting down the government over Obamacare?

[HeyYou]

When I buy a house, I make payments that also reduce the principal. You kow, the amount of money that I borrowed.

 

When the government takes out a loan... they don't buy the house.... they only pay the interest on the loan, and then they borrow more against the house they don't have.

 

Your analogy doesn't even come close.

 

Our government continues to borrow money to make their budget. The national debt continues to rise. Doesn't matter at what rate it is rising, the simple FACT that it is STILL going up, due to budget deficits, is what matters. Thinking that this ISN'T a problem is ignoring reality. (burying your head in the sand) It is this belief that permits our government to continue this practice, and it WILL come back to bite us in the keester.

 

The numbers the government shows us to 'prove' that the economy is 'improving', belies the fact that for a significant portion of the populace, we are WORSE OFF than we were 10 years ago. The income gap is growing, the rich are getting richer (which folks to point to in order to 'prove' things are 'better'....) but the average joe is finding it more and more difficult to make ends meet. Our good paying jobs have fled the country, and are not likely to return any time soon. Fiscal policy coming out of washington (regardless of who is in power) is NOT HELPING THIS COUNTRY. Sure, the rich folks like it, but the rest of us? We are taking it up the nether regions.

 

We are going the way of Rome.

[Hardwaremaster]

I usually try to avoid these type of topics, but after reading a portion here, you have caught my undivided attention, to be honest the United States debt is in my humble opinion. A symptom of a much larger national problem because everyone is focusing on this, rather, paradoxical situation, they are missing the rest of the picture. What I'm interested in is what they going to do about it, before it crashes on their heads.

The United States has accumulated over $70 trillion in unreported debt, an amount nearly six times the declared figure, according to a new study by University of California-San Diego economics Professor James Hamilton.

 

The unique aspect of Hamilton’s study is that he examines federal debt that has not been publicly released, specifically the government’s support for “housing, other loan guarantees, deposit insurance, actions taken by the Federal Reserve, and government trust funds.”

Since the global economy hit rock bottom in 2008, US federal debt has gone through the roof, increasing from $5 trillion to an estimated $12 trillion in 2013. Meeting the interest payments alone on that debt burden presents a formidable challenge for US taxpayers: In addition to the debt, Americans must pay back around $220 billion annually just in interest. (Emphasis is mine:)

 

And with interest rates set to rise from their historic lows, Americans will be confronted with a significantly higher bill in the future. In fact, the Congressional Budget Office anticipates that net interest expense on US federal debt will exceed the entire defense budget by 2021.

 

Here is the Hyperlink you can finish reading the rest of this article, and before anyone points out there pointless political affiliations, this was also reported on CNN. Fox and I also believe the BBC, but, you will have to dig the rest up yourself. The debt at this point is completely unpayable and irrelevant as they will have to default eventually at this point, or risk causing the entire system to collapse, along with everything else that it is connected to, not to mention the other symptoms that are a part of this Governmental Bureaucratic and Economic Mismanagement problem.

 

I said it once and I'll say it again, Interest is designed to accumulate debt, it has no other reasonable function.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

I think comparing Obamacare to prohibition is not really a good example, for one thing there is no empirical data or evidence that shows Obamacare "doesn't work". Granted "maybe" Obamacare might not work but Republicans Don't even want to give the program a chance to shine or try to even improve on it. It seems the basic message that echos from republican party these days is abolish everything and anything that is "not prefect" from Obamacare to the IRS instead of improving or trying to fix.

 

 

First. Obamacare is so disrespectful as well as totally false narrative. Show me one case where President Obama made any effort to construct The Affordable Care Act. If I remember right, he was off jaunting through foreign countries getting a peace award for breathing and telling everybody who would listen how sorry he was for the previous administration. Nancy Pelosy and Harry Reed had more to do with this bill than anyone.

 

Second. Show me where their was any proof the Prohibition would become the utter failure it ended up being Both are social programs set down by the government to supposedly care take over the populous. Also show me where the breweries and the saloon keepers added in the creation of prohibition, because the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies had their say in The Affordable Care Act. Talk about the fox in charge of the hen house.

 

You are reading into this statement too much. I was not putting words in anyones mouth. I was simply commenting on the premise of people being under or unemployed on why they do not have healthcare.

 

 

You were quoting him. I've heard far to many partisan denigrate the opposition by inferring evil intent instead of debating the issues at hand. I'm not saying you were, but I automatically assume that negative statements, not in evidence in previous posts are stated for a reason. You obviously intended to demonize someone.

 

 

Maybe you should go read up on it then. Who knows you might actually like Obamacare.

 

 

As far as knowing this law, the creators don't know this law. Those who voted for it never read the thing. All I've heard is talking points from either side and they regurgitate the same old tired messages.

 

I agree with you that we should wait and see, but how long will that be, seeing that the President has given so many juicy little wavers it's like choirboy appreciation day at the Vatican. Oh Happy days......... :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

 

As for the Republican Party, well they are doing everything they can, as would the Democrats if the shoe was on the other foot, to not allow the opposition to make any points with the American Public. This is why neither party cares about what the American public, as a whole cares about congress. If both parties are equally reviled, no one gets the upper hand and they keep their jobs.

[rizon72]

 

As far as knowing this law, the creators don't know this law. Those who voted for it never read the thing. All I've heard is talking points from either side and they regurgitate the same old tired messages.

 

So true. I have yet to read anything that has made me change my mind that this bill is anything but a few good things wrapped in a bunch of bull****. And sadly, the ones who will be paying for it, the middle class, adding even more stress to this shrinking group.

[HeyYou]

An interesting article on the costs of Obamacare..... One of the items of note? 77% of all jobs created in the last year were Part Time. So, employers aren't required to pay benefits.

[colourwheel]

 

You were quoting him. I've heard far to many partisan denigrate the opposition by inferring evil intent instead of debating the issues at hand. I'm not saying you were, but I automatically assume that negative statements, not in evidence in previous posts are stated for a reason. You obviously intended to demonize someone.

 

Just like how you are trying to demonize me now? As far as I know HeyYou has no personal quarrel with me. So just let this go please. If I offended him then I apologize. But for the record I was not quoting him, reading back to the original posts you seemed to have tried to portray me as quoting when it is clear there was no quotations of any sort.

 

 

 

 

As far as knowing this law, the creators don't know this law. Those who voted for it never read the thing. All I've heard is talking points from either side and they regurgitate the same old tired messages.

 

So true.

 

Do you know this as a fact that the creator do not know the law that they wrote themselves or is this just another opinion? As far as my concern for those who have not read the law over(as lengthy as it is to read) or claim to not know the particulars of this law really shouldn't be in such protest over it. Might as well just simply state you just don't like the idea of social healthcare.

 

Regardless if anyone likes it or not Obamacare isn't going away anytime soon and this is a "fact" not just an opinion.

Edited August 20, 2013 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

I don't have a quarell with anyone here, nor is it possible to offend me on an internet forum. :D After al, it IS the internet. I may disagree with your politics, but, that's as far as it goes. (applies to everyone)

 

Looking at some of the information available on the web..... (including the piece lniked to above...) I am reasonably sure that Obamacare is NOT going to accomplish its intended goals, nor is it going to be good for the economy, or working-class americans. I doubt that there is anyone that knows the full extent of what is in the law, as it has changed dramatically after the initial bill was modified and amended beyond recognition after it got out of committee. Heaven only knows what other surprises are in store. The fact that major portions of it were delayed by a year speaks volumes about the complexity, and difficulty of implementation we are already seeing. I don't think it's going to get any better. (opinion)

 

Obamacare was simply an end-run attempting to treat symptom of a much larger ill, and apparently, given information freely available, it is actually having the opposite of its intended effect. Employers are ditching full time jobs (that would require them to provide health insurance) in favor of part-time labor, whom they do NOT have to provide insurance for. Net effect: FEWER folks with health insurance. This is going to dramatically increase the cost to the government for the subsidies they promised to provide to folks that don't have insurance, and don't make enough to pay for it on their own. That, and I have SERIOUS issues with the government being able to apply a 'tax' to folks that don't toe the company line. (by having insurance) That precedent alone is reason enough for me to want to kill off the entire law.

[colourwheel]

@HeyYou

 

Has it ever occurred to you why the GOP in congress is threatening to shut down the government over Obamacare? Republicans realize they can't do enough to damage the program as it is when it goes into full effect no matter what they try to do legislatively. I think GOP is scared the program will be too popular otherwise why the threat to basically shutdown our government over it?

 

They know they can't do anything to stop Obamacare now and it will only make the GOP look bad in the long run when history will write what the republicans in office did to our country over trying to stop a law that provided over 30 million Americans affordable healthcare if they don't manage to get it repealed.

 

The GOP is so deeply invested in repealing this law over the years now they are willing to completely destroy the country and make the people of the nation suffer over it if they do not get their way. Just like a child throwing a hissy fit kicking his toys around the room when it is bedtime and not wanting to go to bed.

Edited August 20, 2013 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

The problem you and I run into here is, I disagree with the premise that obamacare is going to actually benefit anyone, other than the insurance companies. Obamacare isn't even fully implemented yet, and already its effects are being seen/felt, with FEWER folks having employer provided health insurance.

 

77% of all jobs created this year have been part time jobs. Why do you think that is? O-care also wasn't popular with the american public. The majority of citizens did NOT want this to pass in to law. Only reason it did was due to back room, behind-closed-doors dealings between the two major parties. The biggest boon that obamacare could have provided was single-payer insurance, but no, that part was axed early on in the process.

 

We already have a shortage of health care providers in this country. Adding millions of more people to the roles of 'go to the doc for a sneeze' isn't going to help us. It will drive up costs, which have already been spiraling out of control, and a rate FAR greater than the rate of inflation. We are adding fewer people to the healthcare workforce than we have been for decades, due to associated costs of simply working in the health care field. (malpractice insurance being right up there on the list.)

 

We can't cite 'future history' condemning/praising anyone at this point, as no one really knows just exactly what the end result is going to be. So far, indications are that O-care is NOT going to be the great savior the dems have tried to paint it as.

 

Once again, politicians are treating a symptom of a much greater ill. Unless/Until washington finally decides to address the REAL issue, things wil only get worse.

[colourwheel]

 

The problem you and I run into here is, I disagree with the premise that obamacare is going to actually benefit anyone, other than the insurance companies. Obamacare isn't even fully implemented yet, and already its effects are being seen/felt, with FEWER folks having employer provided health insurance.

 

77% of all jobs created this year have been part time jobs. Why do you think that is? O-care also wasn't popular with the american public. The majority of citizens did NOT want this to pass in to law. Only reason it did was due to back room, behind-closed-doors dealings between the two major parties. The biggest boon that obamacare could have provided was single-payer insurance, but no, that part was axed early on in the process.

 

We already have a shortage of health care providers in this country. Adding millions of more people to the roles of 'go to the doc for a sneeze' isn't going to help us. It will drive up costs, which have already been spiraling out of control, and a rate FAR greater than the rate of inflation. We are adding fewer people to the healthcare workforce than we have been for decades, due to associated costs of simply working in the health care field. (malpractice insurance being right up there on the list.)

 

We can't cite 'future history' condemning/praising anyone at this point, as no one really knows just exactly what the end result is going to be. So far, indications are that O-care is NOT going to be the great savior the dems have tried to paint it as.

 

Once again, politicians are treating a symptom of a much greater ill. Unless/Until washington finally decides to address the REAL issue, things wil only get worse.

 

HeyYou I completely understand your point but this whole topic is about the GOP threatening to shutdown the government over this law. Just because you think there is a bigger problem at hand does this really justify the GOP making such threats?

 

Maybe you should start up your own thread about congress needing to get off their butts and start passing job bills since you seem to feel so strongly on this.

 

But like I said before whether you think its good or bad for the country, whether you like it or not, Obamacare isn't going away anytime soon and this is a "fact" not just an opinion. Obamacare is here to stay.

Edited August 20, 2013 by colourwheel