LE Speechcraft Overhaul

[threefoldmind]

So am I the only one bothered by how utterly useless this skill is? It adds a few nice cantrips, but doesn't nearly tap into the potential of what a true life word smith can do. We see all the time in movies, cinematics, and books a character smart enough to talk enemies down and sometimes hire them on the spot to kill their "friends". Now I think this should be relatively simple to write, but I am not familiar with the creation kit and it seems a little overwhelming. I was wondering if I could get someone to either make it for me, or help me figure out how to write this. I have 7 perks written up in concept I just need to learn how to apply it to the game through the creation kit.

Any modders want to help me out?

[EnaiSiaion]

Tbh there is no point in making perk mods, not with the likes of SkyRe around. Noone needs a new perk mod anymore.

[threefoldmind]

SkyRe?

[threefoldmind]

Oh I see, this mod looks incredible. Okay well I will have to try it out.

[baltasaronmeth]

*nevermind, he found out by himself :-)*

Edited September 3, 2013 by baltasaronmeth

[threefoldmind]

Yea it looks like a much needed mod, though I wonder does it negate the need for mods like Hunterborn, RN&D, Frostfall, Apocolypse Spells, and like a large number of mods that I have?

[Shadeybladey]

I find Vanilla Speech is actually quite useful for my Bard as I can now sell any item to any merchant. Overall, the skill does not really do a lot, though, and bribing a guard is often more expensive than paying the fine.

 

There are some Speech mods, but they tend to add things that affect Shouts, which is a unique and innate Dragonborn ability that should not be tied to any specific skill in any way at all.

 

I don't know how much overhauls like SkyRe affect everything else, and I don't like the idea of changing every skill as some of them are perfectly adequate in Vanilla.

 

I was looking at making a Speech mod but have been busy with other things. There should be levels of Oratory, like Allure, Charisma, Persuasion and Allure, Thug, Intimidation and more levels of the Crime and Mercantile branches. But the mechanics of what can be done is limited.

 

~.~

[threefoldmind]

I was thinking about making speech branch off into Persusion, Tactics, and Mercantile.

Persuiasion would have skills that expand you speech options (Fast Talker allowing you options like "Okay I submit" and you pay them to stop attacking. But this is costly as you have to do it per foe. Or multiple perks to expand on that allowing you to pay foes to send them into a rage, or persuade them to rage.)

Tactics would enhance followers and allow you to have I was thinking 2-5 followers at one time.

Mercantile is essentially what is in the game now.

[Shadeybladey]

Yes, those Fast Talking sort of perks would certainly add to the role-playing, as long as there are opportunities to use them.

 

In Vanilla, the Mercantile, Crime and Oratory perks are all mixed up.

 

It's kind of like this:

 

Mercantile Mercantile Crime Oratory

 

100 Master Trader

90 Fence

Master 80 Haggling V

70 Investor Intimidation

Expert 60 Haggling IV

50 Merchant Persuasion

Adept 40 Haggling III

30 Allure Bribery

Apprent 20 Haggling II

10

Novice 0 Haggling I

 

 

 

There is a mod by Kevin Kidder that does some good things, like your Speech and Persuasion/Intimidation affects your yielding and ability to force enemies to yield. That is SUCH a great idea.

 

But, again it affects Shouts. That sort of thing really annoys me as what could have been a great mod is ruined by adding some stupid, dumb Uber-Muchkin perks. As I say, no perks that in theory any Man or Mer could learn should affect a Dovahkiin's innate ability. To me, it's a cheat as there are no equivalent perks in other skills that affect dragons, such as a perk to do +50 damage to a Dragon with weapons or magick, or an Illusion perk like Draconic Mind that allows dragons to be susceptible to Illusions. I still would not like the idea, but at least it would be balanced then.

 

But, tying Bribery, Intimidation and Persuasion to each other, like Vanilla does, is just as stupid. Anyone can attempt a Bribe, but Intimidation and Persuasion are quite different abilities. And if you wanted to play a Paladin of Mara or Stendarr, why should you have to take dishonest, dishonourable and criminal perks like Bribery just to get Persuasion? Or Fence if you want to be a Master Trader? A Paladin or Knight of Renown would have a reputation and Speech score that would be of great advantage if the game mechanics allowed it.

 

So I was thinking a while back about this sort of thing, that more reflects the Good/Evil, Legal/Criminal axes:

 

Crime Oratory Mercantile

100 Master Trader 100

95 | 95

90 Fence Investor 90

85 | | 85

Master 80 | | 80

75 | Intimidation Persuasion | 75

70 Honeyed Words | | Merchant 70

65 | | | | 65

Expert 60 | | | | 60

55 | | | | 55

50 Corruption Thug Charisma Salesman 50

45 | \ / / 45

Adept 40 | \ / / 40

35 | \ / / 35

30 Bribery Allure / 30

25 \ \ / / 25

Apprent 20 \ \/ / 20

15 \ | / 15

10 \ | / 10

05 \ | / 05

Novice 00 ----------Haggling I-V--------- 00

 

 

 

Perk Sk Pts Pre-Requisite Description

Haggling V 80 Haggling IV Bartering +30%

Haggling IV 60 Haggling III Bartering +25%

Haggling III 40 Haggling II Bartering +20%

Haggling II 20 Haggling I Bartering +15%

Haggling I 0 None Bartering +10%

 

Master Trader 100 Investor Invested Merchants gain 3000 gp, Bartering +15%

Investor 90 Merchant Invested Merchants gain 1000 gp, Bartering +10%

Merchant 70 Salesman Invested Merchants gain 500 gp, Bartering +05%

Salesman 50 Haggling I Sell any item to any merchant

 

Fence 90 Honeyed Words Barter stolen goods, Bartering +10%

Honeyed Words 70 Corruption Bribe guards for 10% of Bounty

Corruption 50 Bribery Bribe guards for 25% of Bounty

Bribery 30 Haggling I Bribe guards for 50% of Bounty

 

Intimidation 75 Thug Intimidation/Bartering +100/+10% (+125/+20% with opposite sex)

Thug 50 Allure Intimidation/Bartering +50/+05% (+75/15% with opposite sex)

Allure 30 Haggling I Persuasion/Intimidation/Bartering +25/+25/+10% with opposite sex

Persuasion 75 Charisma Persuasion/Bartering +100/+10% (125%/+20% with opposite sex)

Charisma 50 Allure Persuasion/Bartering +50/+05% (75/15% with opposite sex)

Allure 30 Haggling I Persuasion/Intimidation/Bartering +25/+25/+10% with opposite sex

 

Bartering bonuses from Charisma/Persuasion do not stack with Thug/Intimidation

 

 

But that's as far as I got. That and a graphic for the new perk tree.

 

~.~

[Shadeybladey]

Tactics would enhance followers and allow you to have I was thinking 2-5 followers at one time.

 

 

I am not sure if that is doable (at least not by me) There are entire mods to handle extra followers, like UFO and AFT and they are quite complex and well written.

 

I am not sure if a perk could allow extra followers; if it could, one could try:

 

Field Marshall 90 Battle Command Allows five extra followers & grants XP for what they kill

Battle Command 70 Presence Allows three extra followers

Presence 50 Leadership Allows two extra followers

Leadership 30 Haggling I Allows one extra follower

 

 

But that would be already made redundant by the follower mods. I think AFT adds a hidden perk where you gain skill-up XP even if your followers kill a creature entirely on their own.

 

It's probably what Vanilla should have been.

 

~.~