Is Democracy on the Decline?

[HeyYou]

What we have here, is a microcosm of what we have in washington DC. With the exact same behaviors. Those on the left, supporting the ACA, those on the right, opposing it. Everyone has their own opinion, and vehemently defend it. We have everythign we see in congress, right here. It becomes very clear to me just why our country is going down hill so quickly. There is no room for compromise. There is no room for discussion. The whole "I am right, and you are obviously an idiot." mentality reigns supreme. The left seems perfectly willing to give their leaders the power to legislate how they live their lives. The right is bound and determined to demonize the left. Nowhere in this do we see 'discussion'. Just everyone trying to prove "I am right, you are wrong." With no middle ground at all.

 

I don't like the ACA. I think it is a prime example of government overstepping its bounds. But then, I don't care for Ted Cruz either. Forcing a government shutdown over this isn't going to help anyone. Real possibility of some fairly severe consequences here, and if they do come about, it is the republicans that are going to be taking the blame for it. That isn't going to do their chances in '14 any good. I most certainly do NOT want to see the dems with complete control of the house, senate, and whitehouse. That would be extremely badly for this country. I don't want to see the republicans in the same position either though. They don't have any better idea of how to get the country back on track than the dems do. All they seem to care about is telling the dems "No".

 

With all the infighting and politicking going on, the business of getting country back on its proverbial feet has fallen by the wayside. One would think the american people would be outraged enough, to stand up and and start shaking fists, and shouting about how 'them folks need to get back to doing the work they were elected to do". But, I don't see that happening either. We have become politically polarized, and all that seems to matter is 'winning' some particular battle or other in congress. In the meanwhile, the country is going to hell in a hand basket. Our foreign policy is making us more enemies than friends, and we apparently have no qualms about turning our backs on our supposed allies when someone shouts 'freedom and democracy' loud enough, even though what they have in mind is anything BUT what the average american would consider 'freedom', or 'democracy'. We seem to believe that "my enemies enemy is my friend", when that also is most certainly not the case. But, does our government see that? Will they admit that everything they promised us has turned out to be a lie?

 

Washington is now filled with people that are more concerned about getting re-elected, and making sure their major campaign contributors CONTINUE to contribute to their campaign coffers, by passing legislation that makes sure they can make huge profits, even at the expense of their own countrymen. You know, the folks that they are nominally supposed to represent? The people no longer have any power here. We get the illusion of power with our vote. But, it doesn't matter how you vote, which party, which person, they are ALL doing the same exact thing. Looking out for number one, and making sure they get re-elected, so they can continue to feed at the trough of the american taxpayer.

 

The system is broken. It was broken by the very people that swore to defend it. All in the name of money. Corporations now run america. The supreme court sealed our fate with their decision on Citizens United. (which I find an absolutely hilarious mis-nomer) No one in washington has any interest in fixing it, as that would cut off their gravy-train. Nothing is going to change within the system. Too much money to be made. The US is going to continue its downhill slide, until we finally reach a tipping point, and then it will be collapse. The house of cards will come tumbling down. Quite frankly, I don't think it can happen soon enough. We obviously aren't going to be able to avoid it. Our government won't let us.

[colourwheel]

 

Washington is now filled with people that are more concerned about getting re-elected, and making sure their major campaign contributors CONTINUE to contribute to their campaign coffers, by passing legislation that makes sure they can make huge profits, even at the expense of their own countrymen.

 

Passing what legislation? As far as I have seen the last two congresses have basically passed nothing new except renaming a bunch of government post offices... /sarcasm

[HeyYou]

Look further back than just two years. I am not the first to bring this up, there is plenty of information freely available on the web.

[colourwheel]

I understand what you were saying but the last few years congress has done nothing. It was a sarcastic statement about our "current" government.

Edited September 25, 2013 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

Its been going on for decades, Citizens United was simply the final coffin nail for the american public. It gave congress MUCH more motivation to ignore their constituents than they had previously.

[JimboUK]

 

 

oore

They will be informed about the things that matter to them, do you think they won't notice if they're getting poorer? that they won't notice an increase in crime? will not being about to get medical care pass them by unnoticed? Some may not want their children taught Darwinism, it is only a theory after all, even if they did it would come way down their list of priorities, the same goes for religious teaching. People are not stupid or ignorant because they care about different things or have other priorities.

 

 

 

No No No they wont notice , because some slick advertising campaign will misdirect them , For the last 30 + years we have been told that the trickle down of market capitalism would make all our lives better and instead in virttually every category we have been seeing people getting poorer , while a few get filthy rich . One of the quotes they use is the "Hand of God" quote from the book Wealth of Nations , basically that if you let them compete they will regulate themselves through competition but what the ignorant masses dont know is that Adam Smith never said that , what he said was that Government needed to create a system of tight regulations over all economic matters creating what he called an economically flat line where in no one would be given any advantage what so ever and within that line the Hand of God (competition) would operate . Roosevelt understood this of the American people that they were ignorant so he had to find a way so they would understand and he chose something he knew they would all understand a sports term , the level playing field.

 

Its one thing to have interests about various things (religion , Darwinism etc) its another to be ignorant of the very things that are contributing to your poverty of lack of health options or crime on your street .

 

But its not even bout that as to why Democracy is in decline its the failure or critical thinking in people that Hardwaremaster was trying to get to. Here's some examples

 

Take the gun debate you had that guy who heads the NRA tell you "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" . So lets assume thats true . Well Americans are the most heavily armed people on the planet and am i to assume your mostly bad guys , no I would hope your mostly good guys . So the question becomes why are you not already the safest country in the world instead of one of the most dangerous , If you take what he said as a truism then the equation doesn't work and you can know he was selling you line .He was lying. And just so you know I'm pro gun but you Americans with your no backgrounds check crap or gun show conventions where in some they dont even have to show ID and a whole host of other loopholes the gun manufacturers have put in place is just hillbilly crazyville.

 

Or how bout the public health option vs the private option .In that the HMO's and Insurance companies vigorously funded Tea Party types to oppose it claiming that a public option they wouldn't be able to compete with, using all the bogeyman words like socialism to stir people up . Yet has it not been private corporations telling us for the last 30+ years that they can do many of the things Government does better because they operate within the parameters of free market capitalism. So lets take that as a truism that they can do it (Healthcare) better than Government , if its better why wouldn't they be able to compete. Are we to assume that if there were both a public and private option that people would be choosing say in the case of heart attacks the option that offer a 50/50 (public) survival rate or a 80/20 (private) survival rate. So once the public option was defeated you ended up with Obamacare a system wherein the Government mandates health insurance for the Health Insurers , literally a system where the government is lining up customers for private corporarations on the taxpayers dime . Exactly what they (Corporations) wanted.

 

Total failure of critical thinking is why democracy is failing , people seem to feel more comfortable with being fed bullsh_t .

 

 

Oh come on, no amount of slick advertising is going to make people think they can afford to eat properly or pay the bills when they can't. Politicians think like that, they think the people will buy any old crap told to them, that's one of the reasons they're hated so much and thought to be out of touch. Of course they're not actually out of touch, they just think they can talk nonsense and people will buy it, unfortunately for them the vast majority don't. I've spent a lot of time banging on doors through various campaigns and I can assure you Joe Public is a lot more clued in that the politicians and their hangers on think.

[TRoaches]

@HeyYou: I don't see the problem as being a lack of compromise, but far too much of it. There are a few polarizing issues that the two major parties like to publicly argue about but they are primarily social issues that are arguably outside of the intended sphere of influence of the federal government. When it comes to the stuff that the federal government is REALLY supposed to be handling, and that they have unchallenged legal authority to regulate, they are more or less in agreement: foreign policy, military spending, national security, commerce, voting laws, etc. If a congressperson takes a polarizing stance on either side of an issue that the federal government should have no power to interfere in, such as laws regarding doctor/patient relationships (abortion, "morning-after" pill, birth control, assisted suicide, etc) they are held up as a hero by one side and a villain by the other. On these issues they know that they can posture and boast and push legislation that in the end won't matter because a court will eventually overturn it, at which point they can just begin again. If a congressperson takes a polarizing stance on an issue that is unambiguously within the legal power granted to the legislature, such as tax law, the federal budget, or foreign policy they are ridiculed as being "outside the mainstream" or "too far from center". If they persist in this effort and are successful in gaining any significant public support they are eventually downgraded, via media character assassination, to the status of "crazy". A few examples of "crazy" politicians would be Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, or Ralph Nader. Each of those people expressed ideas about federal policy drew the ridicule of the center factions of both parties, ranging from simply labeling them as idiots or nutjobs to claiming that their positions are "dangerous" or "a threat to national security". The reality is that the policies proposed by those three former presidential candidates represented threats to the extra-governmental (read: corporate) interests that rely on their control of the two major parties to get the legislation that they desire. The people who end up rising to the highest echelons of power within the major parties are the compromisers such as McCain or Specter. Willingness to compromise may be a fine quality in a President, because he sits alone at the top of the government structure and has the final say on what gets passed, but not in a congressperson who drafts and debates legislation.

 

I don't want more compromise; I want principled stances that upset the status quo, because the status quo is for things to continue to get worse for sovereign individuals and better for the handful of multinational corporations and extra-governmental entities that are ruining our world in pursuit of land, resources, and treasure.

 

If you were accused of a crime that you did not commit and of which there is no evidence indicating your guilt, and you were facing a 10 year prison sentence, would you want a lawyer who is willing to compromise with the prosecution, allowing them to get what they want (a conviction) in return for only serving only a 5 year sentence, or would you want a lawyer who will do everything in their power to ensure that you are acquitted of the crime that you are innocent of committing? A lawyer representing a client is a microcosm of the congressperson/constituent relationship. I don't want my representatives in government to compromise with the entities who want to infringe upon my rights and pillage my society and my planet. I want them to take every possible action to advocate on my behalf, to stand up to the ridicule that will be heaped upon them by their peers and by the media who want nothing more than to maintain the current arrangement of business running and regulating government by exerting their financial influence over congress.

 

In the case of the ACA I can't help but believe that it is a dream scenario for the medical insurance and pharmaceutical industries, and that a politician who opposes the law is making more enemies in that very powerful industry than friends. It is mandating that ALL citizens must become customers, and I see no downside from the perspective of that industry. It is a law that essentially guarantees increased profits. Imagine if there were a proposed "Affordable Automobile Safety" bill that required no vehicle older than 10 years may be legally operated on public roads. Would the auto industry support such a measure? Of course they would, and any politician who opposed it would be labeled as being in opposition to vehicle safety. Would it actually reduce the number of fatal accidents? Unlikely, because it does not actually address the true cause the vast majority of driving fatalities: bad drivers. The ACA, in similar fashion, does not address the reasons for the astronomically high costs associated with health care. It simply demands that we give more money (which translates into more influence) to the very industry that has driven the cost up so high in the first place. Anyone in congress who even mentions any alternative model of health care is branded as a loony and told to give up their futile efforts to change the system.

Edited September 25, 2013 by TRoaches

[colourwheel]

 

I don't want more compromise...

 

A democratically elected government that never compromises will perpetually remain dysfunctional because not everyone want the same things....

 

Who is to say what you think is best for the country over someone else's idea what is best for the country?

Edited September 26, 2013 by colourwheel

[TRoaches]

I didn't say that I want NO compromise. I said that I don't want MORE compromise, meaning that there is already too much of it. On some things, such as the immoral drone wars that we have been waging in places like Pakistan and Yemen, there really isn't much room for compromise. Murdering children who live thousands of miles away is morally wrong, I will not accept any compromise that allows for such behavior to be justified as "defense", and I will not vote for any candidate who supports such actions in any way. The same goes for spending well over 1 TRILLION dollars in 2012 on national "defense". If they demand 2 TRILLION next year should we compromise and give them 1.75 TRILLION?

[Hardwaremaster]

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