colourwheel Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) For five years now we have its going to be either my way or no way by BOTH parties. That is time to stop, and do something neither side knows how to do anymore, negotiate. You seem to be forgetting the Democrats in congress have tried over 17 times requesting for a conference committee to debate over legislation this past year alone only to be denied the request on even for the simplest things.... Do you see democrats threaten to hurt the nation when they don't get what they want? Even when an agreement comes to a close recent history shows Republicans on principle will just reverse their standing because they don't want to seem like they agree with our "socialist", "Marxist" Leader in fear to loose their base supporters who will willingly deny anything that has to do with Obama. Jimmy kimmel did a funny experiment this week on his TV show going out to the street asking random people if they support "the affordable care act" over "obamacare" making the people who he was asking look stupid when they didn't even know the two are the same thing. They all claimed to like "the affordable care act" and didn't like "Obamacare". It kind of reminded me when I was locally polling random people at the mall to see how much people really understood about the Law..... If this is even a indication to how the republican base voters are then it doesn't matter if Obama is doing anything to help the country. They just don't want anything to do with him even "if" their lives are benefiting from his policies in a way they desperately need.... It's like as if a homeless person who is hungry on the streets desperately needs food then a person offers him a loaf of bread that he instantly rejects because he doesn't like the person.... He would rather starve than eat food from someone he doesn't like. ">" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"> Edited October 2, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwaremaster Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) It appears as if some US government workers are protesting the shutdown which they are not going to achieve anything substantial. Because governments are artificial constructs, they provide services for special statuses, this is what citizenship was supposed to be about. In exchange they require employees to sustain the privileges they provide, now unless the United States Federal Government has its employees sign a written contract that states the following: Full payment will be received on time and every time for the hours of work solicited under the stated amount of payment. Then they have no legal ground to stand upon, the government has made no promises of any verifiable denomination, that they would be payed regardless of the circumstances. Therefore it has no obligation to keep paying them for their employment that it doesn't require it at the moment, as a matter of fact, it can fire them when ever it deems necessary. And will likely proceed to do so if it has the required information for the situation. Meanwhile everyone else on this thread, is still hung up on the pointless argument, that there is actually a tangible difference between Republicans and Democrats despite both being run by Human Beings with agendas. That are not connected to their political affiliations, all one has to do is merely look at the content of most political scandals. The Governmental Default is a completely other problem although the debt is hovering around: 16,000,000,000. At the time of this writing it is supposedly reported that the number in question is only in funded liability's. Allegedly the unfunded liability's is some where around: 150,000,000,000. Although the United States Government states otherwise, I cannot find a source that states whether or not that this is or isn't, counting the Federal Reserve Interest on top of the debt or is it merely counting derivatives from the Interest. However it matters little as of the seize of the debt anyway, the government could have defaulted anytime it desired, regardless who expected them to pay off a debt this seize anyway. At the current rate its mathematically impossible to payoff with the current modern system in place today. Unless they actually want to use American property and or other assets as collateral to payoff the nations debt. Most likely they will raise the debt ceiling, which really doesn't do anything, other then allowing them to borrow more and more money. That will only serve to push the United States further and further into debt. The Mainstream Media is proclaiming that the Federal Shutdown has put 800,000 workers on furlough. That sounds large until someone looks at the size of the government as a whole. The current size of the Federal Government is 4.4 million. The Federal Government has been boasting that it has reduced the size of government, but as is always the case, this is a bit of a hodgepodge, as jobs formerly done by Federal Government employees have been transferred to contractors. Exact numbers of Federal contractors are hard to come by because one contract can mean multiple workers (who are paid on average 1.83 times what equivalent private sector workers are paid), however even the best conservative estimate is that there are between 7 million and 7.5 million Federal Contractors. Now adding that together should give us a rough estimate of the Federal Work Force: 4.4 million plus 7.5 million is 13.9 million. So putting 800,000 workers on furlough is only a tiny fraction of the total Federal Government, about 6%. Private companies are shaving single digits off of their work forces every day, but they don't get massive media headlines proclaiming a disaster. And, of course, the additional 21 million state and local government annoyances are open for business as usual today. Also compare that with the total national population of the United States of America which is around 316,776,000 and I'll let you guys subtract that by the 800,000. With that in mind how many people were effected, in relation to the complete population of the United States of America, is a marginal number. Edited October 2, 2013 by Hardwaremaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) @Hardwaremaster You have an interesting point but you also have to take in consideration those who are required to work without being paid too. Doesn't mean they won't get paid for their work but if they have bills to pay and can't pay them it totally disrupts their life financially till they do get paid... It was 1st estimated over a million workers are require to work without pay once this shutdown would happen and that number could grow ontop of just the 800,000 on furlough... One reason why Private companies do not get as much media headlines for such things is because they are private companies... Edited October 2, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 A fair percentage of those that are required to work, but don't get paid, are the military...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizon72 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) This isn't new, its the 18th time this has happened. Difference is before both sides came to the table to negotiate. Democrats ARE NOT this time!!!! My way or the high way. Glad I no longer am a registered democrat. Do you see democrats threaten to hurt the nation when they don't get what they want?Actually, yes, his name is Reid, and he blocks a lot of stuff coming from the House. BOTH sides are to blame. Color, give me a reason why the Democrats are not to blame, and not the typical liberal spin. Iif democrats don't come to negotiate then how are they any different than a tyrant? Outta here, seeing as I'll get the same typical lib spin replies. Just tired of it. Both parties need a good kick in the ***. Edited October 2, 2013 by rizon72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Because, as I mentioned before, the dems are well aware of what the repubbies mean by 'negotiate'. They know what the terms are, and what the republican requirements are, and they are well aware they won't agree to any of it. So, why bother? Not like either side is going to change their tune, it has turned into staring match, and the country is just sitting back, and waiting, to see who blinks first. Hopefully, before we default on our debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Jimmy kimmel did a funny experiment this week on his TV show going out to the street asking random people if they support "the affordable care act" over "obamacare" making the people who he was asking look stupid when they didn't even know the two are the same thing. They all claimed to like "the affordable care act" and didn't like "Obamacare". It kind of reminded me when I was locally polling random people at the mall to see how much people really understood about the Law..... If this is even a indication to how the republican base voters are then it doesn't matter if Obama is doing anything to help the country. They just don't want anything to do with him even "if" their lives are benefiting from his policies in a way they desperately need.... This was not an "experiment". It was a comedy bit. It was funny, but you should not pretend that it experimentally proves anything other than that Kimmel's staff was able to find a few opinionated yet uninformed people on the street. The same thing has been done at Obama election rallies, occupy Wall Street protests, college campuses, and many other venues. It makes for a good laugh, but it should not be confused with an actual poll. Polls are not edited for content. Also, they do not all claim to oppose "Obamacare". The guy who speaks at 1:33 says that he opposes the ACA. I consciously avoid using the phrase "Obamacare" for exactly this reason. The tactic of unofficially naming the law after a polarizing president (popular on one side, demonized by the other) leads to this sort of cheerleading/demonization among the electorate. People choose to support or oppose the law based on their political allegiance rather than the merits of the law, a phenomenon that I pointed to in another thread on this forum. It is logically backwards because a person should evaluate the merits of the positions first, then choose which side to stand on based on their opinion of which position is superior rather than choose a side and adopt the positions of that side based on superficial aspects like social perceptions or the acceptability of their views by their peers. Edited October 3, 2013 by TRoaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 This isn't new, its the 18th time this has happened. Difference is before both sides came to the table to negotiate. Democrats ARE NOT this time!!!!Hey rizon, wire me some money. About 5k should do. For now. I sit patiently awaiting your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) BOTH sides are to blame. Color, give me a reason why the Democrats are not to blame, and not the typical liberal spin. Iif democrats don't come to negotiate then how are they any different than a tyrant? Ummm... Ted Cruz last week went on a 21 hour "fake" filibuster urging for republicans to shutdown the government over "Obamacare". I don't think I remember Reid demanding for a government shutdown EVER.... Even Michele Bachmann has gone on twitter posting a brain fart bragging about how they shutdown the government as if it was like some major accomplishment.... This isn't new, its the 18th time this has happened. Difference is before both sides came to the table to negotiate. Democrats ARE NOT this time!!!! Hey rizon, wire me some money. About 5k should do. For now. I sit patiently awaiting your response. This is exactly why the democrats are refusing to negotiate on this... What the Republicans are asking for is completely irrational over just funding the government for "only" a few more weeks.... If they were actually serious about debating they wouldn't put on the table terms even they wouldn't agree to if the situation was reversed.... this whole negotiating tactic is a no starter waste of time only meant to dupe the public perception... Edited October 3, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Over 70% of the nation is already blaming the entire Republican party for the Shutdown and also well over a majority of the nation blaming the Republican party for government dysfunction. Congressional Republicans in office have just been polled today at a record disapproval with favorability of only 7%... The main reason why Democrats are refusing the republicans request for a conference committee is because for the almost over a year congressional Democrats have requested to do this with Republicans 17 times and each time being completely denied including the request for a conference committee to compromise on a clean straight forward full budget bill the senate passed over 6 months ago..... Now only because they forced the country to shutdown they all of a sudden wish to compromise while they have just damaged the government? That's like waiting to talk to stranger only after you have already beaten them up and braking both their legs then force them listen to your demands of debate... The republicans in office are not even being rational. They themselves would not even remotely conceded to this if the political situation was reversed.... I agree with HeyYou. If the Republican party wishes to govern creating crisis after crisis they are not going to be around for much longer if the government even exist after all this is all over and behind. If the Republican party stays around, no matter how they try to gerrymander their controlled districts they have permanently made themselves a minority party nationally for decades today.... According to Reuters/Ipsos 24% of Americans blame Republicans for the shutdown, while 19% blame Obama or Democrats. Another 46% said everyone was to blame. The poll is referred to here http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/03/us-shutdown-talks-stalemate-obama-congress Where did the 70% come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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