What is Destruction?

[EnaiSiaion]

Looking at the Destruction school, it provides abilities that aren't necessarily destructive. Conjuring fire? That has tons of uses, only some of which are related to setting enemies on fire. And using frost for combat almost seems like a stretch compared to what else you can do with it.

 

So why is that school named Destruction?

 

As far as I understand, the schools aren't just arbitrary labels, they're supposed to have some degree of importance. But I'm not sure what. Religious connotations.....?

 

Does that mean you physically can't use elemental spells for other purposes than blowing things up?

 

/lorenoob

[Madcat221]

The schools of magic are gameplay mechanics passed off as arbitrary labels. Witness the demise of Mysticism and the diaspora or elimination of all its effects, or how Light and Paralysis spells are now Alteration effects when they were Illusion effects in the past.

 

Using fire/frost/lightning to inflict harm is the most prominent use of "Destruction" spells, especially the higher-end ones, but as you said there'd be practical uses.

[Lachdonin]

In-universe, the schools of magic represent radically different concepts than what we see in gameplay. For instance, we see in Lord of Souls the use of 'Illusion' magic to make the crown prince writhe in uncontrollable ecstasy. So much so, in fact, he gets addicted and actually starts to hate sex (because it's not the same). We also have references to Alteration magic being used to crush people inside their armour.

 

"Destruction" magic likely isn't strictly about being destructive (as other schools can do that too) but rather about the destruction of higher-order magic. It's elemental, breaking Magicka down from it's divine origins into strictly mortal elemental concepts.

 

If that makes any sense, I don't know, i'm stuck on a working hypothesis on what Black Souls are...

[nekollx]

there's even a lore book where a mage uses light, paralasis, and invisibility and says their all Illusion so I don't think it's arbitrary, at some point in the past (or maybe it's just how the College of Winterhold who trains all Skyrim Mages to some degree) organizses magic. In Cyrodil The Mages Guild may classify things differently.

 

^^ Oooh Black Souls, that is something I've always been curious about, i mean Falmer build armor and weapons, Giants have a language and do animal husbandry. What is up with Black Souls. Does that mean Cavemen and other primitive races while sentient aren't good enough?

Edited November 12, 2013 by nekollx

[Tykiii]

The separation of magic into schools was done arbitrarily. In "The Black Arts on Trail" we can read:

 

 

The 'Schools' of magicka are, as we know, artificial constructs, originally formulated by Vanus Galerion to divide and thereby simplify study. They have changed many times throughout the years, but at their heart, every Master knows, they are all linked together.

 

Continuing on this line of thoughts. The "Response to Breno's Speech" is basicaly an argument between two mages about the point of treating Destruction and Alteration as two separate schools. We could argue that both Destruction and Alteration concentrate on changing the material reality thus they use the same magical mechanic...and the only difference between them is the purpose of usage. What about Restoration then? Restoration spells also change the material reality... so couldn't we just fuse those three schools together? ;)

 

If I were to define the concepts behind schools I would say:

-Destruction spells rise the entropy.

-Restoration spells lower the entropy.

-Alteration spells change the reality while trying to keep the entropy as constant.

 

It is however just my own concept... without any lore to back it up.

[Lachdonin]

^^ Oooh Black Souls, that is something I've always been curious about, i mean Falmer build armor and weapons, Giants have a language and do animal husbandry. What is up with Black Souls. Does that mean Cavemen and other primitive races while sentient aren't good enough?

 

Black Souls seem limited to races who drive change. Falmer, Giants, Goblins, Ogres etc. are all rather static, whereas the 10 Major Races of Tamriel are all highly dynamic. I view the distinction as souls protected by the Divines, the alteration and use of which is 'forbidden'.

 

At the same time, the distinction seems to be new as-of Oblivion, with many mages not even recognizing what the Black Soul-gems are. Since the creation of the gems is linked with the Necromancer's moon, the divine realm of Mannimarco, i posit that the distinction between White and Black souls comes with the Warp in the West and the creation of the God of Worms. With the rise in the power of necromancers, Arkay protected the souls of the dynamic peoples of Nirn. However, ever a crafty one, the God of Worms found a way around that protection, allowing for the creation of special Soul-gems when the Necromancer's moon passes in front of Arkay, sapping his power and corrupting the cycle of life and death.

 

Anywho, i think Tykiil is right on this once. The schools of magic are rather arbitrary distinctions, and attempts to solidify particular areas of study, they don't represent the same concrete fields as the 8 Winds of Magic in Warhammer. In fact, some groups don't even recognize the magical schools, such as the Psijic's, who instead just use Magic in its entirety.

 

Considering Galerion's agenda in spreading the knowledge of magic to all peoples rather than keeping it locked away amonst the scholarly, i think the Schools exist for no reason other than making magic conceptually easier for people to understand.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Lachdonin

[screendrop]

Conceptually, one must consider that magic is an abstract. For example. Fire has as many uses for destruction as for life. It is complicated to say where the schools got their names, but I consider it much like this. The word destruction encompasses human knowledge of ones ability to effect certain manifestations on the physical world, but are not necessarily designed for destruction. Flames are a human concept based around a natural abstract: thermodynamicity. THe term flames and its application are purely of human conceptualization. Flames may be used to destroy, which is what humans have historically used them for (in TES), but are also restorative in nature (forest fires are actually GOOD for regrowth). It is the way in which one interprets an abstract that names it.

Consider Mehrunes Dagon if you will. He is the Daedric lord of destruction. According to social convention and human belief, Destructive mechanisms are negative, yet, there is nothing in nature to suggest that destruction is "abject" or in discord with nature itself. It is simply another aspect. When contextualized, however, destruction, death, killing are inherently "human" bad, but it is their application and the way they are perceived that gives them this classification.

Magic is an abstract, based on the casters power, it can cause any given effect on the physical world and is thus, only limited by the caster. The schools of magic are only attempts to classify the limitless and consequently, don't always align with what one may perceive to "make sense".

 

~SD

[EnaiSiaion]

The separation of magic into schools was done arbitrarily. In "The Black Arts on Trail" we can read:

 

 

The 'Schools' of magicka are, as we know, artificial constructs, originally formulated by Vanus Galerion to divide and thereby simplify study. They have changed many times throughout the years, but at their heart, every Master knows, they are all linked together.

 

Continuing on this line of thoughts. The "Response to Breno's Speech" is basicaly an argument between two mages about the point of treating Destruction and Alteration as two separate schools. We could argue that both Destruction and Alteration concentrate on changing the material reality thus they use the same magical mechanic...and the only difference between them is the purpose of usage. What about Restoration then? Restoration spells also change the material reality... so couldn't we just fuse those three schools together? :wink:

 

 

Oooh! Thanks! :)

 

Don't give Bethesda any ideas for further reducing the spell pool though. :tongue:

[kradus]

Sounds like a millitary connotation to me. After all, mages have seen plenty of use in war.

[Tykiii]

 

Oooh! Thanks! :smile:

 

Don't give Bethesda any ideas for further reducing the spell pool though. :tongue:

 

You are welcome. :)

 

Haha... don't worry... I will be extra cautions not to be an inspiration for such crime. ;)