Which faction do you dislike the "most"?

[Moksha8088]

With the help of the Thuggysmurf mods, the Reformed Institute has much to offer to the Commonwealth. With Sarah Lyons at the head of the Brotherhood of Steel, they actually help patrol the Commonwealth keeping it safe. With the Depravity mod, Preston serves time in jail for his treachery in Quincy.

 

Factions can serve the general welfare of the residents if managed properly.

[RoNin1971]

Come to think of it. If all the synths really are nothing but programmed robots (much like the hostile ones you encounter) it would make the Railroad even more silly and 'derailed'. A continuation of the pre-war hippies at Sunshine Tidings & 'Professor Goodfeels'.

 

but valentine and his story would be hard to explain without him being self-aware.

[fraquar]

Then you realize Valentine's "personality" was actually uploaded by the Institute.

Free will alright, within the confines of a constructed personality to conform to.

Only DiMA was given actual "free will". Valentine comes with a restriction - a preprogrammed personality.

 

Considering how DiMA and Valentine turned out, one would be hard pressed to think the Institute would give future generations true "free will".

They'd have triggers built in on command like you saw with the Broken Mask Incident.

If you think Mr. Carter went postal on the Diamond City residents out of "free will", well I got some beachfront property in Yuma, AZ for sale. :D

Edited September 19, 2023 by fraquar

[RoNin1971]

 

Free will alright, within the confines of a constructed personality to conform to.

Just as any human.

True free will doesn't exist.

[fraquar]

Valentine can only be what he was programmed to be - a detective. He can't be a botanist, he can't join the Minutemen, nothing.

Are you saying you can only ever be what you are?

You can't decide to be a Diesel Engine mechanic, a banker, a politician?

 

Remember, Valentine can only work within the confines of his detective programming. Becoming the next operator of Beantown Brewery is beyond his capability - he wasn't programmed for that.

[showler]

I think you're going too far with that. Nick has the memories and personality of a very dedicated police detective uploaded to his mind. I suspect he has just as much choice in what he wants to be as the original Nick. But for both of them being a detective is what feels right.

 

I also suspect that the goal of the Institute was to upload themselves into Synths and live forever. Nick was an experiment in that direction.

[RoNin1971]

I think you're going too far with that. Nick has the memories and personality of a very dedicated police detective uploaded to his mind. I suspect he has just as much choice in what he wants to be as the original Nick. But for both of them being a detective is what feels right.

 

I also suspect that the goal of the Institute was to upload themselves into Synths and live forever. Nick was an experiment in that direction.

Agreed.

 

Besides, we all have a 'programming' of where you where born, male or female?, religion, social interactions, experiences, etc, etc.

Everything you 'lived through' determines your next 'choice'. Not saying you "can't choose to do different", but you won't.

 

Its really not that much different. Also the reason I didn't mention it. Its irrelevant. [the programming]

 

Are you aware of your existence, who & what you are? Could you willingly choose to do something else/different?

That's what it is about, imho.

 

& that [all the above] what the railroad destroys when they wipe a synths mind and 'reprogram' them.

 

Just imagine forgetting your entire life. Everything you learned, everything you experienced, everything making you, you.

and have it replaced with an entire (fake) different set. A copy of my mind, for example.

What 'good' does that for ... you? You're gone. Your body is 'mine' now.

 

edit:

Note: not really mine, but someone starting out exactly the same.

However, as the 'path through life' (experiences etc.) will divert from that point on, so will the personalities and the choices they make.

Edited September 20, 2023 by RoNin1971

[showler]

 

& that [all the above] what the railroad destroys when they wipe a synths mind and 'reprogram' them.

 

I still think that depends on the how.

 

Nick, and Curie, are exceptions.

 

Nick had the original Nick's brainscan overlayed on his brain, but we don't know how complete that scan was or how damaged or why he seems equally cognizant of the original Nick's life and his own existence as a Synth.

 

Curie was a complete transfer with her "life" continuing without interruption in the new body.

 

For most Synths I can't imagine they have a store of random people's brainscans laying around to use for the overwrite.

 

I'd imagine they construct the new memories themselves. And if they base it on the Synths actual memories they could probably preserve the majority of the life experiences while "changing the names and locations to protect the innocent" (Bad boys, bad boys...whatcha gonna do...) So the question is how much your life is "destroyed" if you remember being mistreated by a terrible employer rather than by an Institute scientist. How close can they keep things to maintain the same personality.

 

Even our example of a Synth who became a raider started out as a guy who joined the Minutemen out of a desire to help and had his ideals twisted by his new experiences. That seems like a valid goal for someone who comes from what is essentially a slave race.

[fraquar]

I think you're going too far with that. Nick has the memories and personality of a very dedicated police detective uploaded to his mind. I suspect he has just as much choice in what he wants to be as the original Nick. But for both of them being a detective is what feels right.

 

I also suspect that the goal of the Institute was to upload themselves into Synths and live forever. Nick was an experiment in that direction.

 

Nick is exactly what was uploaded. Nick Valentine - detective. It is what he is.

He's not part Nick, part self-developed consciousness. He's what he was programmed to be.

Nick Valentine, Detective. Live a life full of one-liners......

 

In other words, Nick will never get drunk off Bobrov's and hit on Ellie. Something you might expect from someone with free will.

In other words, Nick will never say "eff it", I'm done with these people and just find a bike, repair it and ride off into the sunset.

He can't - he's a synth. He's Nick Valentine.....

Edited October 11, 2023 by fraquar

[RoNin1971]

He's Nick Valentine.....

 

 

That would actually lead to the conclusion that he does have free will (as far as that exists). It's him, in a robot/synthetic body. (Which is not some kind of separate entity, invaded with somebody else's memories)

Unless you deny the "original" had free will.

 

The game itself isn't clear either way, but there are quite some indications at least some of them, including Nick, are 'self aware', but it's left to the player to determine.

 

...so, this way to philosophical talk for this topic isn't really gonna go somewhere. It is what you make it.