The Andreja Cherami Leigh conversion mod, and an open letter to Nexus on AI's use in modding

[Verbais030]

I want to first briefly acknowledge that modding is a huge part of what has kept Bethesda's community alive, thriving, and connected. We all know that Bethesda games owe at least some of their near-eternal success to dedicated volunteers, working for donations or often even free, pushing the limits of these games with their creative ideas and taking them in completely new directions. As the modding community has grown larger and stronger, and technology has advanced, some pretty amazing things have become possible.

 

That said, I think it's important to discuss the topic of AI and its use in modding.

 

This morning, a new mod was published on the Nexus mods page called Andreja's New Voice - Female V from Cyberpunk 2077. This mod replaces over 4,000 lines of voice dialogue from the voice actress for Andreja - Cissy Jones - with an AI-created rendition of those same lines intended to be voiced by Cherami Leigh (the voice actress responsible for "female V;" the female voice variant of the playable protagonist in Cyberpunk 2077. The modder claims to have used the publicly-available Retrieval-based Voice Conversion, or RVC, to accomplish this.

To be clear: This is indeed a very creative use of a still rather cutting-edge technology, and a showcase for what current-generation AI is capable of. Such a mod would not have been possible just a few years ago. That being said, the decision to create and publish such a mod opens a door to a variety of ethical considerations which are imperative to talk about and understand.

Voice actors/actresses are a vital part of modern game development. They're responsible for arguably one of the most important parts of any game that includes voice acting: The personality of the characters you're meant to become invested in, the tone and delivery of the entire story, and the immersion of the player into the game world. These individuals put in hard work to maximize the impact of those elements for the final project, and are rightly paid to do so.

 

When a modder utilizes technology to artificially generate voice talent in a game, it could be seen as quite literally stealing another person's voice. Cherami Leigh is a professional voice actress who did not consent and was not compensated for the use of her voice and likeness in this mod. Her real voice has been reconstructed to deliver lines and say things she never actually said.

There are some counter-arguments that can immediately come into play here. One of them is that this mod is free and optional, both of which are true. You do not need to replace Cissy Jones's voice in your game, and indeed, the mod is only available to the fraction of players on PC anyway. The problem with this argument is that it is not considering the actress whose voice was used without permission to create the content. Even if it is free and optional, it is still a creative work that harvests the most important tool of another - in this case, a voice actress' voice - without their consent.

 

Another counter-argument is that the quality of this technology is still not perfected enough to the point that all 4,000+ lines of dialogue are delivered in a believable way, or that there's no issue because it's clear that Cherami Leigh could have delivered the lines without the distinct "AI mistakes" sound in some of the lines. The reality is that this is exactly the time where we need to analyze this sort of content, because in a few more years we may be at the point where these technology limitations are no longer a concern. We are rapidly reaching a point where AI-generated likenesses of other individuals, either visual or audio in nature, are becoming indistinguishable from the real person.

 

The use of AI in modding to recreate the likeness of an unaware, uncompensated, and unconsenting person is unethical, and as modders, a line needs to be drawn somewhere. As many of us recently witnessed, Nexus is no stranger to drawing lines based on ethics, and this raises the question of what other areas of modding need to be brought into question. This is one such area.

I lastly want to point out that I am not of the belief that the author of this mod developed it with any sort of negative intent in mind. Again, it is a very powerful and interesting mod that utilizes advancing technology to create something that the community would not have even believed possible in somewhat recent years. However, as the mod author states in the description, the mod "showcases a proof of concept" of what this technology is capable of, and as interesting as it may be, the ethical implications of this type of technology need to be seriously called into question before allowing it to become widespread.

 

[showler]

https://www.nexusmods.com/news/14850

[RaidersClamoring]

"When a modder utilizes technology to artificially generate voice talent in a game, it could be seen as quite literally stealing another person's voice"

Artificial generation seems like the opposite of stealing someone's voice. Using the actual lines would be closer to stealing, but then you'd be greatly restricting what is possible with modding.

I say leave it up to lawmakers and agents and on a personal level simply don't support the mod.

As far as the implied economic conundrum -- modding prolongs the lifetime of games and therefor also their sales, and on that same token, the purchase power of game studios. If your voice can contribute to that, you will be highly sought after talent. Your take is a bit nearsighted.

[PrometheusTS]

 

I want to first briefly acknowledge that modding is a huge part of what has kept Bethesda's community alive, thriving, and connected. We all know that Bethesda games owe at least some of their near-eternal success to dedicated volunteers, working for donations or often even free, pushing the limits of these games with their creative ideas and taking them in completely new directions. As the modding community has grown larger and stronger, and technology has advanced, some pretty amazing things have become possible.

 

That said, I think it's important to discuss the topic of AI and its use in modding.

 

This morning, a new mod was published on the Nexus mods page called Andreja's New Voice - Female V from Cyberpunk 2077. This mod replaces over 4,000 lines of voice dialogue from the voice actress for Andreja - Cissy Jones - with an AI-created rendition of those same lines intended to be voiced by Cherami Leigh (the voice actress responsible for "female V;" the female voice variant of the playable protagonist in Cyberpunk 2077. The modder claims to have used the publicly-available Retrieval-based Voice Conversion, or RVC, to accomplish this.

To be clear: This is indeed a very creative use of a still rather cutting-edge technology, and a showcase for what current-generation AI is capable of. Such a mod would not have been possible just a few years ago. That being said, the decision to create and publish such a mod opens a door to a variety of ethical considerations which are imperative to talk about and understand.

Voice actors/actresses are a vital part of modern game development. They're responsible for arguably one of the most important parts of any game that includes voice acting: The personality of the characters you're meant to become invested in, the tone and delivery of the entire story, and the immersion of the player into the game world. These individuals put in hard work to maximize the impact of those elements for the final project, and are rightly paid to do so.

 

When a modder utilizes technology to artificially generate voice talent in a game, it could be seen as quite literally stealing another person's voice. Cherami Leigh is a professional voice actress who did not consent and was not compensated for the use of her voice and likeness in this mod. Her real voice has been reconstructed to deliver lines and say things she never actually said.

There are some counter-arguments that can immediately come into play here. One of them is that this mod is free and optional, both of which are true. You do not need to replace Cissy Jones's voice in your game, and indeed, the mod is only available to the fraction of players on PC anyway. The problem with this argument is that it is not considering the actress whose voice was used without permission to create the content. Even if it is free and optional, it is still a creative work that harvests the most important tool of another - in this case, a voice actress' voice - without their consent.

 

Another counter-argument is that the quality of this technology is still not perfected enough to the point that all 4,000+ lines of dialogue are delivered in a believable way, or that there's no issue because it's clear that Cherami Leigh could have delivered the lines without the distinct "AI mistakes" sound in some of the lines. The reality is that this is exactly the time where we need to analyze this sort of content, because in a few more years we may be at the point where these technology limitations are no longer a concern. We are rapidly reaching a point where AI-generated likenesses of other individuals, either visual or audio in nature, are becoming indistinguishable from the real person.

 

The use of AI in modding to recreate the likeness of an unaware, uncompensated, and unconsenting person is unethical, and as modders, a line needs to be drawn somewhere. As many of us recently witnessed, Nexus is no stranger to drawing lines based on ethics, and this raises the question of what other areas of modding need to be brought into question. This is one such area.

I lastly want to point out that I am not of the belief that the author of this mod developed it with any sort of negative intent in mind. Again, it is a very powerful and interesting mod that utilizes advancing technology to create something that the community would not have even believed possible in somewhat recent years. However, as the mod author states in the description, the mod "showcases a proof of concept" of what this technology is capable of, and as interesting as it may be, the ethical implications of this type of technology need to be seriously called into question before allowing it to become widespread.

 

 

I think using other actors voices, even if reproduced with AI should be strictly forbidden , AI tools can generate anonym and non real actors voices as well so better use those instead.

[SoltyBadger]

so if someone uses AI to voice a custom companion and does not make the mistake of naming the voice actor or a character using that actors voice, the author could make the claim the specific voice being synthesized is nothing but an impersonation or sound-a-like. many people do impersonations of other voice actors, jon baily and others for example impersonating peter cullen's optimus prime because they sounded "somewhat" like him, so they get jobs playing prime and not peter to save money.

yeah, i know it's controversial with the "AI is takin' our jerbs" however, i believe when it comes to modding if you can get a free VA or hire a VA you should, but perhaps you cannot for some reason or another, then AI is perfectly fine in my opinion.

I consider AI voice in modding nothing but the impersonation of a humans voice that may sound alike to someone in reality but, directly taking existing prerecorded lines of a voice actors work and repurposing it is theft without a doubt.

 

It's all a matter of perspective, if AI voice is something you morally object to, don't support the author by downloading the mod. mods shouldn't be removed because they do not align with the opinions of a minority who does not necessarily represent the opinions of the whole modding community.

[showler]

Did anybody actually read the statement from Nexus Mods that I linked?

[SoltyBadger]

Yeah, it was an interesting read. i was surprised nexus took that stance in regard to this AI thing. i was just throwing in my two cents on the matter to the op.

[TTek]

"A a voice cannot be copyrighted."

If I make a companion mod using AI tools that makes it sound like kim kardashian there is no law that prevents me from doing that.

 

BUT
"You cannot copyright a voice, but an artist retains exclusive commercial rights to their name and you cannot pass off a song as coming from them without their consent."

 

This mod stated he used ai so no law were broken. Just don't tell people the real voice actor voiced your mod always say it was ai.

[zanity]

Let us be utterly clear here. There are ZERO 'ethical' concerns with a so-called vocal impression. Vocal impressions are LEGAL. Vocal impressions are ETHICAL. And showbiz itself has always supported the free right to use vocal impressions.

 

Do you know why? Clearly many very ill-informed people do not. But they open their mouths never the less. Cos that's what modern fools who get all their 'knowledge' from social media do.

 

The answer is very simple. When a person becomes a 'star', do you think their vocal performance is part of their unique 'identity'. It is NOT. It is a result of vocal training by a voice coach, and a regional accent/dialect that the uniformed think is 'unique'. Anyone with any hearing ability, who watches and listens to a ton of media, will quickly notice how many actors sound alike, or sometimes exactly the same, even down to tricks of delivery.

 

The first is region. An actor may have an unusual regional accent that the uninformed think is somehow his/her 'unique' creation. It is not. Many people from the same geographic location speak exactly the same. But delivery and intonation may be separate from accent. They will be down to a voice coach, AND a particular fashion at the time for a certain form of delivery. So the famous lady from the original Bewitched show in the 1960s, for instance, may seem to have a very unique voice, and if cloned some idiots here would cry 'foul'. However, loads of actresses around the late 50s and early 60s spoke exactly the same way.

 

The issue around voice impression needs no ill-informed opinions from the hard-of-thinking. It is a simple matter of Law, common-sense, accepted practice, and reality. It is totally fine, totally lawful, totally moral, totally ethical.

 

The 'wisdom' of the masses is the exactly opposite of logic, common-sense, and reason. Given their levels of education, but their belief that their consumption of mainstream media makes them 'geniuses', I'm not surprised we get the constant "wah, wah- ban it". Whenever society goes bad, some politically motivated bad 'actor' or team uses the ill-informed masses to this end. We see this in the current Hollywood 'strike', where a massive downturn in the production of scripted material from the peak a few years back is matched by a demand for higher fees from a far smaller pot, combined with a demand for residuals from agenda shows that literally no-one watches on the streaming services. And what excuse is given for the strike? AI.

 

The result of that strike- relevant since the "BAN AI voices" team here arise directly from Hollywood 'union' activity- is that the decline in scripted output has accelerated, flop agenda shows have been removed from streaming services so no residuals have to be paid at all, and a ton of agenda shows and films have been cancelled. How exactly did that help actors and voice artists at the bottom?

 

Last thought- as some have already stated- people have 'publicity Rights'. In other words the voice cloning should never claim an association with the original actor (without permission). For the 4chan, reddit mob members here- pointing out that a voice clone is similar to a given person does NOT infringe this principle. So saying X sounds like Y is not is not any form of revelation or legal attack on the creator of X. In reality, even if the creator of X sez it is an 'impression' of Y, this is information only and does not breach the publicity rights of Y- a longstanding legal showbiz position in English speaking nations.

Edited September 16, 2023 by zanity