Where did the Dragonborn cross the border into Skyrim?

[Nilanius]

Sorry for this bump but I used google and this is the only thread that showed up on the subject that actually had a map that is viewable (Other sites that showed up, had dead links to their maps).

 

Ralof did say "Outside of" Darkwater Crossing. Having explored Darkwater Crossing, it is actually not just a mining camp, it is full of Stormcloak Guards too. So my guess would be Ulfric and his band were heading there from Darkwater Pass, saw the imperial ambush and made a break for it. I am assuming the Dragonborn was coming from the south from Cyrodiil. So using this interactive map:

 

http://www.uesp.net/maps/srmap/srmap.shtml

 

And zooming all the way in around the road from the south leading to Fort Neugrad, there is a fork in the road to bypass going near the fort. Then at the end of that fork, go over a snow hill onto the road heading towards Riften. Now looking at the map near Darkwater Crossing, lets assume Ulfric's band is heading to there from the south. It most likely was near Snapleg Cave. And when they saw the ambush they made a break for it back along the road. Hence the ambush began OUTSIDE Darkwater Crossing. If they fled along the road then chances are they and the Dragonborn would of intersected somewhere in between. I honestly can't seem to find a cyrodiil/riften border at all.

 

So in my story my char had already crossed the border. She was born in Skyrim, but her parents were slain by bandits and her aunt took her to Cyrodiil. When the aunt passed away she decided to return to Skyrim. Being a wilderness girl, she took mountain paths rather than follow the road, and found herself on the road at the most inopportune time. She noted Lokir trying to steal a horse, Stormcloaks were running towards her then halted. She looked behind and there were Imperials, then imperials came behind the stormcloaks and Ulfric called out their surrender. My char was knocked out by an imperial and all her gear taken. She woke up on the wagon which had been traveling to Cyrodiil, but then Tullius decided to turn the wagons around and head for Helgen.

 

Here is where my own conspiracy theory comes in: If they followed protocol, Ulfric and everyone in their custody would be taken to Cyrodiil. Ulfric would be given a trial, with a good chance that the judge would look at nord customs and find him Innocent of murder of the high king. Tullius doesn't want Ulfric to even have a fair trial as Ralof said. So most likely they had took the prisoners all to Fort Neugrad, then turned on the fork to head back to Helgen. In this scenario, Tullius is actually doing something illegal, and when he takes the Dragonborn, Ulfric and all his men to Helgen for execution, he'd need justification then why he didn't bring them back to Cyrodiil. Easiest answer: Frame the Stormcloaks for the destruction of Helgen. Right after he executed the dragonborn, Ulfrics men and Ulfric himself, they'd turn on the civilian witnesses. Then bring Ulfric's head back to Cyrodiil and declare Helgen destroyed by the Stormcloaks, and he'd be branded a hero.

 

However fate did not allow Tullius to get his way. The dragon showed up, and basically freed the stormcloaks and the Dragonborn. And also if you think about it, the Empire and Stormcloak Rebellion, is similar to Star Wars. In this case, the Empire has become the puppet who's strings are now controlled by the Dominion, who see's fit to commit crimes against Skyrim, and the Empire does nothing about it. Case in point: Thorald Grey-mane. Illegally abducted. Tullius basically writing to the Battle-born that it's in everyones best interest to ignore the Thalmor's activities. So Tullius isn't in Skyrim for Skyrim's best interest. He's there to serve as the face that controls Skyrim, and the Thalmor in turn, control him.

 

It's these reasons I end up every single time, siding with the Stormcloaks.

[kimmera]

I just usually assume my character is from Skyrim but has just been living as a woodsman and not gotten around at all. As for the arrest, yes, it makes the Imperials seem bad, but you quickly realize that was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time in the middle of a civil war, and could just as easily been the Stormcloaks who arrested you.

[Deleted3507349User]

If you are a Nord, it's implied that you were away from Skyrim and just returned. Ralof says as much. Given the area, it's likely that whatever race you are, you were in Cyrodiil previously.

Which is a good reason the Thalmor bands hunt you with an execution order...may possibly be the reason for the assassin ambush also.

[Tidus44]

The only indication in the game is that the PC was captured crossing a border in Skyrim. The assumption that the PC was captured at the same time and same place as Ulfric and the other Stormclocks is just that, an assumption, and a bad one at that.

 

Rolaf says in the wagon, “You were trying to cross the border, right? Walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us, and that thief over there.”

Ralof later says to his sister (Gerdur) in Riverwood, "I can't remember when I last slept... Where to start? Well, the news you heard about Ulfric was true. The Imperials ambushed us outside Darkwater Crossing. Like they knew exactly where we'd be. That was... two days ago, now.

It is clearly stated the PC (and Lokir the horse thief) was captured crossing a border in Skyrim. The border is not the Skyrim to Cyrodiil border, but obviously the border from The Rift to Eastmarch, which is just outside of Darkwater Crossing.

 

It is never stated that the PC was captured at the same time or same place as Ulfric and the other Stormcloaks. In fact, the way Rolaf asks, “Walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us…” suggests that the PC was captured at a different time, and most likely before Rolaf and Ulfric.

 

Lokir says, "I'm from Rorikstead.", and “I could've stolen that horse and be halfway to Hammerfell.” This suggests that Lokir was in Skyrim and not coming from or going to Cyrodiil as his direction of travel mentioned is NorthWest, not SouthEast, or towards Rorikstead, where he is from. He is a thief and what is in the Riften area… the Thief’s Guild, so why wouldn’t a thief be in that area?

 

Knowing that Riften and the Rift is Stormclock territory as is Eastmarch it is not unusual that Ulfric and a small contingent would be travelling in the territory, probably between Riften and Windhelm. But why would he go to or come from Cyrodiil or Morrowind? However, there are Imperial Camps in Eastmarch and in the Rift that would allow Imperials to gain intelligence of Ulfric’s movements, to scout an area on his route and set up an ambush.

 

As for the PC, the most likely place to have crossed the border between Skyrim and Cyrodiil to have been travelling in the Riften/Eastmarch area would have to have been along the road from the southeast (Morrowind) to Riften as the only other roads from the south (Cyrodiil) is south of Helgen (Pale Pass) or southwest of Falkreath. To suggest the PC crossed over the rough terrain of the mountains between Cyrodiil and Skyrim at Autumnwatch or Arcwindand makes no sense as why would the PC have travelled that way? The PC isn’t sneaking anywhere or trying to avoid anyone, so why wouldn’t the PC just have travelled on the roads like everyone else?

[kimmera]

It isn't said precisely which border... maybe 'the border' was the front lines between Imperial and Stormcloak forces at that particular point in time.

 

It also isn't said which direction you were crossing.. the PC might have been trying to leave, too... Reminds me of the old song... How many were going to St Ives? The answer to the song depends on which direction the singer was travelling....

[dovahgee]

I've read several of the replies to this topic and studied the map of the areas in question. These are my conclusions:

 

The Imperial ambush at Darkwater Crossing makes sense because they were trying to capture Ulfric seeing as how he had killed the High King of Skyrim. There's also an Imperial military camp in the Rift hold which could explain them being able to pull of an ambush. The same could also be said of Ralof being a Stormcloak he may have been assigned to the area to keep watch for the Imperials that would be pursuing Ulfric. Lokir being caught there doesn't make that much sense and the Dragonborn being caught there doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think the writers left some gaps in the back story, didn't account for any inconsistancies, and didn't give as many details as they could have to help the story make more sense. Also, the conspiracy theory someone mentioned about the prisoners being taken to Fort Neugrad and then onto Helgen to destory the Stormcloaks and make Tulius a hero is a completely resonable theory.

Edited May 22, 2015 by dovahgee

[Relativelybest]

Note that Ralof said "trying to cross the border", implying that the Dragonborn failed. It further implies that the Dragonborn started off in Skyrim rather than arriving from Cyrodiil or something like that.

[Tidus44]

It isn't said precisely which border... maybe 'the border' was the front lines between Imperial and Stormcloak forces at that particular point in time.

 

It also isn't said which direction you were crossing.. the PC might have been trying to leave, too... Reminds me of the old song... How many were going to St Ives? The answer to the song depends on which direction the singer was travelling....

 

At the beginning of the game there are Imperial and Stormcloak camps in the Rift and Eastmarch, but no front lines that could be identified, and certainly none as a "border". The only border in the area of Darkwater Crossing is the border between The Rift and Eastmarch.

 

Where the PC is leaving to isn't an issue, the question is where did the PC cross the border into Skyrim. As far as anyone could possibly tell the PC could have crossed anywhere to enter Skyrim and at any time. The only answer to that question is the story the individual makes up for them self and their game to explain why/how their PC is in Skyrim. The point I have is that the border the PC crossed and was captured is near Darkwater Crossing, not a border between Skyrim and some other province as Rolaf's conversation is clear where the ambush and capture took place - outside Darkwater Crossing.

[Tidus44]

I've read several of the replies to this topic and studied the map of the areas in question. These are my conclusions:

 

The Imperial ambush at Darkwater Crossing makes sense because they were trying to capture Ulfric seeing as how he had killed the High King of Skyrim. There's also an Imperial military camp in the Rift hold which could explain them being able to pull of an ambush. The same could also be said of Ralof being a Stormcloak he may have been assigned to the area to keep watch for the Imperials that would be pursuing Ulfric. Lokir being caught there doesn't make that much sense and the Dragonborn being caught there doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think the writers left some gaps in the back story, didn't account for any inconsistancies, and didn't give as many details as they could have to help the story make more sense. Also, the conspiracy theory someone mentioned about the prisoners being taken to Fort Neugrad and then onto Helgen to destory the Stormcloaks and make Tulius a hero is a completely resonable theory.

 

Why would the Imperials travel from Darkwater Crossing through Helgen to Fort Neugrad and then back to Helgen?

[dovahgee]

 

I've read several of the replies to this topic and studied the map of the areas in question. These are my conclusions:

 

The Imperial ambush at Darkwater Crossing makes sense because they were trying to capture Ulfric seeing as how he had killed the High King of Skyrim. There's also an Imperial military camp in the Rift hold which could explain them being able to pull of an ambush. The same could also be said of Ralof being a Stormcloak he may have been assigned to the area to keep watch for the Imperials that would be pursuing Ulfric. Lokir being caught there doesn't make that much sense and the Dragonborn being caught there doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think the writers left some gaps in the back story, didn't account for any inconsistancies, and didn't give as many details as they could have to help the story make more sense. Also, the conspiracy theory someone mentioned about the prisoners being taken to Fort Neugrad and then onto Helgen to destory the Stormcloaks and make Tulius a hero is a completely resonable theory.

 

Why would the Imperials travel from Darkwater Crossing through Helgen to Fort Neugrad and then back to Helgen?

 

After the Imperial ambush at Darkwater Crossing, it's possible that the Imperials then took the prisonsers to Fort Neugard for temporay holding until their fate was decieded. If you look on a map the road going west towards Helgen forks just before the gates to the village. So they could've taken the road south to the fort first to join the other prisoners. Then supposedly upon General Tulius's decision, the prisoners were taken to Helgen. Also, remember that in the opening scene of the game there is another carriage ahead of the one Ralof, Lokir, Ulfric, and the Dragonborn are in. So maybe the other Stormcloak prisoners had also been held at Fort Neugard.