mods install sequence

[DainiusakaDan]

Greetings, 

Would be great to get some expert options if someone is using this setup (NMM+ LOOT+ Se 1.5.9.7)

What do you people install mods, like from A to Z?  what goes first if you do a fresh installs? Bodies, presets, followers, expansions packs (like LOTD with all extensions), overhauls,, weapons, etc or you just throw all in one and leaving the sorting by Loot later?

I know, LOOT is sorting the load order by it's own brain and I guess i have to trust it, , but recently ,after clean wipe out of everything including Skyrim itself and starting from the scratch, the game is not near enough as the same as before, and only few additional mods were added . Random issues occurs, like  DX armors are not longer being sold by Riverwood trader, XPMSE is not longer detected on followers, and so on,  Loot does not give any major errors either  etc.

Sorry for bad English .

 

[scorrp10]

Why still use NMM?   With new MOs like MO2 or Vortex, you generally have to worry a lot less about the order.   

In my case, it is typically SKSE - AddressLibrary, followed by other base stuff like Engine Fixes, PapyrusUtil, SkyUI, ENB, XMMSE, Racemenu, Nemesis, CBPX, FSMP,  ConsoleUtil, MfgFix.   The rest, order hardly matters.    With a modern mod manager, that is.

[AaronOfMpls]

6 hours ago, scorrp10 said:

With new MOs like MO2 or Vortex, you generally have to worry a lot less about the order. 

Indeed, I use Mod Organizer 2 myself.  Install order doesn't really matter there, since I can effectively re-order it on the fly by dragging mods around in MO's left pane. 

(MO keeps mods in their own folders outside the actual game.  Then kinda tricks the game into thinking they're in the Data folder, based on what order they're in in the left pane.)

6 hours ago, scorrp10 said:

In my case, it is typically SKSE - AddressLibrary, followed by other base stuff like Engine Fixes, PapyrusUtil, SkyUI, ENB, XMMSE, Racemenu, Nemesis, CBPX, FSMP,  ConsoleUtil, MfgFix.   The rest, order hardly matters.    With a modern mod manager, that is.

Similar story for me, when I started my first SE install a couple months ago, after years of playing Skyrim LE/Oldrim. 

I installed SKSE into my actual game folders first.  Then started installing basic utility mods into MO2 (including some that lots of other mods depend on) like the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch, Address Library, SkyUI, RaceMenu, and such.  Then a few other quality-of-life mods that I knew couldn't stand to play without, like Alternate Start: Live Another Life (no more sitting through the cart ride on a brand-new save unless I want it!).* 

Now I'm gradually adding additional mods a few at a time -- either downloading them from the Nexus and elsewhere,** or converting some LE mods I copied over from my LE install. 

Once a few new mods are installed and active in MO, I use my other mod utilities from within MO (via the pulldown next to MO's big [⏵Run] button).  I sort my load order (in MO's right pane) with LOOT, and often drag-and-drop my left pane around into a broadly similar (but not identical) order.  Then use Wrye Bash to (re)build a Bashed Patch (at the end of my load order) that merges together some mods' changes.***  Then use xEdit to look for unwanted conflicts, and to see exactly what mod changes my Bashed Patch is patching.

I've avoided major game breakages in SE so far, though I do run into the occasional mod conflict I have to resolve.  It helps that MO2 warns of some of the instant-crash ones, like missing masters**** or invalid plugins (e.g., an LE/Oldrim .esp I haven't converted to SE yet).

(...OK, that was a bigger, longer post than I'd planned. )

 

* AS-LAL takes you straight to character creation in an isolated prison cell.  You can then pick a start option.  Good for testing out some mods: armor/clothing mods, I can just add the items to my character's inventory via console right there in the cell (search for part of the item name to get the BaseID number; then player.additem <baseid>); house or town mods, I can pick a start that's somewhat close to the modded area; and so on.  And the starting cell is also a quiet place to let mods' scripts, MCM menus, etc start up before playing my character in earnest.

** e.g., most of Arthmoor's mods are on his own site now, instead of Nexus.

*** like leveled lists -- lists of items that are on an NPC, inside a container, part of an outfit, or even part of another leveled list.  If two mods change the same list, the later mod's changes will override the earlier's.  So sometimes you want a patch later in your load order that includes both mods' changes.

**** Sometimes a mod can explicitly depend on another mod's .esm or .esp being active in your load order -- and will crash the game if that other mod isn't active.

[DainiusakaDan]

18 hours ago, scorrp10 said:

Why still use NMM?   With new MOs like MO2 or Vortex, you generally have to worry a lot less about the order.   

In my case, it is typically SKSE - AddressLibrary, followed by other base stuff like Engine Fixes, PapyrusUtil, SkyUI, ENB, XMMSE, Racemenu, Nemesis, CBPX, FSMP,  ConsoleUtil, MfgFix.   The rest, order hardly matters.    With a modern mod manager, that is.

Makes sense, a few years ago when i discovered Nexus site  & mysterious name  called "mods" , i've tried Vortex first but it was far too complicated at first sight, so I chose NMM instead since it was easy for users like me to deal with it's interface.

I'll give a try with MO2 then, your namings makes sense, thanks.

Btw, you mentioned ENB, i did the homework but when again, everyone has different opinion about what to install and specs and etc. Not sure if my computer can handle such changes to visuals? 

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor, 3600 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s), 32 GB Ram, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER (8 gb)

Edited March 8 by dainiusro

[DainiusakaDan]

12 hours ago, AaronOfMpls said:

Indeed, I use Mod Organizer 2 myself.  Install order doesn't really matter there, since I can effectively re-order it on the fly by dragging mods around in MO's left pane. 

(MO keeps mods in their own folders outside the actual game.  Then kinda tricks the game into thinking they're in the Data folder, based on what order they're in in the left pane.)

Similar story for me, when I started my first SE install a couple months ago, after years of playing Skyrim LE/Oldrim. 

I installed SKSE into my actual game folders first.  Then started installing basic utility mods into MO2 (including some that lots of other mods depend on) like the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch, Address Library, SkyUI, RaceMenu, and such.  Then a few other quality-of-life mods that I knew couldn't stand to play without, like Alternate Start: Live Another Life (no more sitting through the cart ride on a brand-new save unless I want it!).* 

Now I'm gradually adding additional mods a few at a time -- either downloading them from the Nexus and elsewhere,** or converting some LE mods I copied over from my LE install. 

Once a few new mods are installed and active in MO, I use my other mod utilities from within MO (via the pulldown next to MO's big [⏵Run] button).  I sort my load order (in MO's right pane) with LOOT, and often drag-and-drop my left pane around into a broadly similar (but not identical) order.  Then use Wrye Bash to (re)build a Bashed Patch (at the end of my load order) that merges together some mods' changes.***  Then use xEdit to look for unwanted conflicts, and to see exactly what mod changes my Bashed Patch is patching.

I've avoided major game breakages in SE so far, though I do run into the occasional mod conflict I have to resolve.  It helps that MO2 warns of some of the instant-crash ones, like missing masters**** or invalid plugins (e.g., an LE/Oldrim .esp I haven't converted to SE yet).

(...OK, that was a bigger, longer post than I'd planned. )

 

* AS-LAL takes you straight to character creation in an isolated prison cell.  You can then pick a start option.  Good for testing out some mods: armor/clothing mods, I can just add the items to my character's inventory via console right there in the cell (search for part of the item name to get the BaseID number; then player.additem <baseid>); house or town mods, I can pick a start that's somewhat close to the modded area; and so on.  And the starting cell is also a quiet place to let mods' scripts, MCM menus, etc start up before playing my character in earnest.

** e.g., most of Arthmoor's mods are on his own site now, instead of Nexus.

*** like leveled lists -- lists of items that are on an NPC, inside a container, part of an outfit, or even part of another leveled list.  If two mods change the same list, the later mod's changes will override the earlier's.  So sometimes you want a patch later in your load order that includes both mods' changes.

**** Sometimes a mod can explicitly depend on another mod's .esm or .esp being active in your load order -- and will crash the game if that other mod isn't active.

Thanks, your hints & advises will definitely be useful for me ton this journey ,appreciated!

[greyday01]

For MO2 you might watch this series of videos by Golpher 

Was written for Mod Organizer but the basics are the same.

This vieo from GamerPoets is also good

I really like MO2. I find it more understandable than Vortex and quite easy to use. For making mods it is great. All of a mods assets are kept in a separate folder with the mod's name so packaging it all up into a mod for uploading is easy. Half the work is done for you. It is also easy to open up a mod and look at its contents to see exactly what is in it.

[DainiusakaDan]

2 hours ago, greyday01 said:

For MO2 you might watch this series of videos by Golpher 

Was written for Mod Organizer but the basics are the same.

This vieo from GamerPoets is also good

I really like MO2. I find it more understandable than Vortex and quite easy to use. For making mods it is great. All of a mods assets are kept in a separate folder with the mod's name so packaging it all up into a mod for uploading is easy. Half the work is done for you. It is also easy to open up a mod and look at its contents to see exactly what is in it.

Thanks a ton