Mod Browsing Overhaul Discussion

[HadToRegister]

3 hours ago, m661 said:

Keyboard shortcuts for actions on a site have *never ever caught on.* No site visitor who doesn't already know that you can press / to open the search or someone with a disability which makes mouse, touchpad difficult to use will get it, unless they are maybe a power user. But I doubt that the last group even would think this is efficient compared to the regular navigation.
 

I was going to report the / sitting in the Search box as a bug, because I thought it was a Character accidentally left in the search box.

[CobaltCakes]

the old layout was perfectly fine, though. I've had so much lag, problems with navigation, and generally just a far worse user experience since this update- it's certainly not making me want to use the site on a regular basis.

Frankly as far as the search menu goes, i never needed a way to switch between games or anything- if i wanted to look for something for a different game i'd just go to that page.

[lordmogul]

18 hours ago, HadToRegister said:

1. So now we can press the “/“ to search for Author, Mod, Collections, and Images.......BIG DEAL, if you're using a MOUSE, instead of being able to click on the DROPDOWN MENU in the Search Box to select Author, Mod, Collections, and Images, you now have to let go of the mouse and reach your right hand over and hit the “/“ key to do the SAME THING YOU USED TO BE ABLE TO DO WITHOUT LIFTING YOUR HAND OFF THE MOUSE. Explain how that makes it “Easier to switch between searching different content types”?

This is NOT a “QoL” Improvement, in the slightest, it's now an INCONVENIENCE. 
 

It might be a separate key on US ANSI, but on DE ISO it's shift + 7 to get there. Sure, it can be done with the left hand (keeping your right on the mouse), but it's a two keys together, which is just as inconvenient.

 

But the really inconvenient part is that at times it takes way over a minute to load a page. Yes, loading the page, not downloading the mod, not getting that 16K screenshot in full size. Loading the page itself. And while that happens, the page can't be interacted with.

Now I know some might not remember how it was back in the 90s, but loading times over analog modem could also take that long. Missing pictures would just be a blank area until they are loaded. And as elements get to your end, the layout might shift a bit, but even then, the elements that were already loaded were interactable.

So occasionally this  flips from "oh so shiny flat design" to "less functional than a geocities page"

[Lollia]

13 hours ago, m661 said:

I very much doubt that a lot of users will ever understand that / is actually a hint to press it on your keyboard.

 

Guilty as charged.

[jmike00]

This feels like it was designed lazily to correct the slow loading problem and only created bigger hurdles than a slow loading page. The fact I can change the number of items on my page from 20 to 80 thanks to my premium causes me to channel my inner Adam Sandler's Wedding Singer and say:

Quote

"Whoop A Dee Doo"

 I don't even know if I call it an improvement. If it is, it's so small that's it's insulting to premium users to say it's an unlocked feature.

Want to offer useful features? Get rid of the current filters or at least dynamically change them depending on what the sort feature is selected. Who in the world browses mods by category when games carry multiple category labels and often aren't categorized properly anyway? I've already selected incorrectly twice. What would be a GREAT feature is when I select sort by name is if there was a button that would jump me to whatever letter I select. Most websites I've seen where you are allowed to sort by name have this option right next to that sort selection. But wait you say! I can already jump to a specific page!!!!.......that I have no idea what is contained on the page I'm jumping to.

Again feels very lazy, not thought out or designed by someone who dropped out of school midway through year two and was given this as their first project. These changes are definitely worth not renewing premium until fixed. Not interested in yet another company allowing me to pay to beta test their crap. Nexus has been big enough for too long now for something as simple as this to not have a level of perfection polish before it goes live. This is Moddb level garbage. No, it's worse since there at least browsing/jumping to the beginning of a letter is a default setting

[m661]

Change is not a bad thing as long as it is well executed.

There will always be people who object to change whatever it might be some even out of principal.
But when you start inconveniencing with the change that is where the line should be drawn. Two month testing can't catch all bugs in most software, code updates but the things I listed above where discovered in less then 15 minutes by browsing. They are things that happen naturally they are not some obscure glitch, bug that happens because of a certain rare system configuration they should have been caught *before* testing it in public. It is like testing a car for a drive noticing the right door is missing from the outside a wheel is replaced with a cinder block the engine is smoking when you turn the ignition key and saying it is ready to hit the road.

Removing the update now is most certainly not going to happen as that creates a whole other kind of can of worms I am all to familiar with but here is a tip how to make it less inconvenient while still able to test and improve the new search.  *Make it optional and give incentive to use it* 

Change the behaviour of the top search bar to the old one. Put a nice visible banner on top of it saying "Want to try our new search and help us develop it? Press /"
Put a report bug and feedback button on the footer of the new window to catch information. Take daily, weekly heatmap tests if people are actually using the new search or the old one based on your updates and fixes. If people don't like it the temperature indicator will have gotten hotter on the search bar if they do like it then it should have gotten colder. compare to the day or week before it.
 

Extent this test for half a year or so or until majority of people are using the new search method organically and by having more handy features which are absent of the old search system. Then put a news message up on the banner explaining you are retiring the old search method in x days. Make it a simple animated countdown to draw attention. Put another feedback button in the linked post have feedback get sorted in your CRM or what ever back-end system is used. Create a list on expected keywords for reasons why some people still prefer old search have the top 10 printed out to dev ops and then decide if anything should still be implemented in the new search before retiring the old one. When all is said and done then finally change the old search bar to activate the new one on the countdown expiration. Expect still some protest as is natural behaviour with any change but the late majority phase should already be well under way when you push that button and you should be only dealing with the laggards under the rogers bell curve.

Right now it is more in the early adopters and early majority on the curve if it was by choice there is no company not even one with a almost religious fandom like Apple that gets the users over in 2 months on a new UI. And ruffling the feathers of the early majority is a sure way to keep that curve climbing up only slowly while irritation levels rise.

And why the rush?
Lets just stop for a second and think of Nexus as the company and not as the user mod platform. Does Nexusmods have any competition to worry about getting behind by taking there sweet time?

Steam workshop is like a baby compared to the capabilities this site and associated software offers. It is a nice snack for Valve to offer as feature but they certainly are not investing there capital in it. If they did we all would know you don't need a business degree to understand that a multi billion dollar corporation can buy out there competition or run them out on the race with ease if they are set on it. What is the total revenue for nexus around 10 to 12 million I would estimate Valve wants to buy it they offer something like 100 million and some cozy paid advisor positions they would not make a dent in there income as they have 8+ billion net worth and no investors to worry about. I would take the money in a heartbeat 10 years of guaranteed income enough to invest in another pet project and steady income of a company to big to fail.

Moddb is the granddad of mod platforms old reliable but also old in what it offers. If its a game before 2010 then Moddb comes to my mind beside that Moddb is not something I ever think of when using mods. They also have a stricter nudity policy which as we all know drives popularity for that category to nexus. It will most likely be here long when Nexus is gone or becomes irrelevant because it was one of the first. But it will never experience its glory days again.

CurseForge is the hip kid on the block actual good interface implementation but lacking the community backing of major popular mods in categories of games and the mod management lacks the things Nexus is preferred over there focus is more the casual mod user. 107 games vs nexus with 3540 games and some popular mod heavy games completely missing on there end because authors prefer nexus mods over them and simply refuse to offer it there. Amazon passed them with the parent company Curse media on to subsidiary Twitch and Twitch saw them as a quick revenue stream. Curse media the parent company was sold beside parts like CurseForge to fandom which had no use of a mod platform they wanted the wikis and DND Beyond and Twitch now being stuck with something they had no idea to actually use or interest in started to look for sellers. Overwolf was happy to take it over and that is as far as we are in the investment history. They are not after more demanding audience they are after steady revenue stream with minimal effort. 


If this was my company I would be very happy with the position I sit in worry less about being hip and age with grace and be proud of the marketing position you hold.
You are not going to lose income with ignoring the majority we all know that protest rarely work in the business world as a means of preventing things and frankly it is most times a waste of time on the protestors side. But you are going to lose faith and goodwill, you are going to see less feedback on changes not because they think you are doing a good job but because it is not worth there time to help you out. And that is not a user protest that is simply a choice in priority. You can change, replace your product overnight but not your users.

[HadToRegister]

I'd also like to point out, that there are people who join Betas, for the sole purpose of getting a preview and just say “EVERYTHING IS GREAT! I LOVE IT!”

Games in open access that eventually get released with bugs, OBVIOUS BUGS, make you wonder “Why didn't people point this out in EA or Beta?”
I chalk it up to people signing up for a Beta who just want to be “First”, and instead of actually looking at things critically and functionally, they're just “Oohing” and “Aaahing" at the new shiny stuff, without taking into consideration whether it's functional or not.

Go watch the video of the little girl on YouTube eating spaghetti, it's a perfect example of how some beta testers are.
(Just click “Watch on YouTube" if you get the "Sign in to prove you're not a bot” message.)
 

 

[NexBeth]

2 hours ago, HadToRegister said:

I'd also like to point out, that there are people who join Betas, for the sole purpose of getting a preview and just say “EVERYTHING IS GREAT! I LOVE IT!”

Games in open access that eventually get released with bugs, OBVIOUS BUGS, make you wonder “Why didn't people point this out in EA or Beta?”
 

Lots of people with expansive critiques were involved in the BETA and Nexus was responsive to many complaints.  Don't think there was much fake "LOVE IT" feedback. There was a good deal of feedback from many users.  The Beta was quite obviously visible for many months to everyone who signed into Nexus.  If you choose not to participate and get your concerns in, that's not really Nexus's fault.

[HadToRegister]

6 minutes ago, NexBeth said:

Lots of people with expansive critiques were involved in the BETA and Nexus was responsive to many complaints.  Don't think there was much fake "LOVE IT" feedback. There was a good deal of feedback from many users.  The Beta was quite obviously visible for many months to everyone who signed into Nexus.  If you choose not to participate and get your concerns in, that's not really Nexus's fault.

"Lots of people"  "Responsive to "MANY COMPLAINTS"

"Good deal of feedback from "MANY USERS."

You know this HOW?

Otherwise, this is just another Argumentum ad populum. 

I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to blame ME for not participating in the beta.
I gave the exact reasons WHY, because it does no good, because it always boils down to “We're going to do it this way, despite your suggestions so “Thread Locked”.
I even pointed to a blatant example of that happening.

Enjoy your Spaghetti.

[NexBeth]

HadToRegister, I haven't tracked anybody's participation in the Beta, including you.  I was responding more generally to people who are after-the-fact posting some pretty scathing complaints in what is now a closed Beta, acknowledging that they didn't participate in the Beta.  

What's the point, other than venting?  Heck, maybe Nexus is still reading and considering; maybe not.  Plenty of opportunity for everyone to get their feedback in was given though.