Crashing on save

[AlienSlof]

I am having a problem with crashes on save, and occasionally going through doors (in or out). I have all autosaves turned off, as this is often a culprit for corrupted saves. Generally, I save through the console so that I can name it after the particular character I'm playing with at the time - eg: lon-1, lon-2, etc. Each time I save, I change the name slightly rather than overwriting, eg: lon-1a, 1b, and so on, again to try and avoid this problem. Same deal - crashes. It's not consistent - if it was, I stood a chance of figuring out the cause. Yesterday, I had several hours of uninterrupted play, today 10 minute max before getting a CTD.

 

I updated my gfx drivers in case it was those -still crashes. This is kind of ruining my enjoyment of the game somewhat and I'm about at my wits' end. Everything I've tried, all those good habits that worked with getting Oblvion stable, are just not working with this problem.

 

Maybe it's a load order problem with the mods I'm running? If so, could anyone advise me on the right order?

 

Fallout3.esm

Hairday.esm

Anchorage.esm

ThePitt.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esp

Repair Rethought.esp

PCIdles.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp

EvergreenAE.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esp

Radiation Glow 08 eng less 15sek.esp

NPC Height Randomizer.esp

Slof's Alsatian Dogmeat.esp

Sack of Holding.esp

bzArmour-nude.esp

Myerz_Items.esp

Megaton House and Theme Overhaul.esp

bzFatigues.esp

DarNifiedUIF3.esp

kikaiEquipment.esp

Slof's Boners!.esp

 

If anyone can help, I would be most grateful, as the way things are, I feel like abandoning the game and moving onto something else.

[gsmanners]

First thing I notice is that you seem to be running an old UF3P. Make sure that's updated to 1.2.0. I don't see anything else, although heaven only knows what MMM is doing to your game's stability (I never touch MMM).

 

I suppose it goes without saying that you've read all these? Fallout 3 is way less stable than Oblivion thanks to improvements in the engine and the GfWL spyware they embedded in the code.

 

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=973552

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=890373

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=892715

[phoneyLogic]

If it realy should be a save game related problem, I would guess the culprit is most likely a masterfile. Did you do a masterupdate with FO3 Edit recently? Does it also happen without any mods, after you made a clean save?

I just ask, just in case you haven't tryed yet^^.

 

 

Regarding the load order I would go for

Fallout3.esm

Anchorage.esm

ThePitt.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

x Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esp

x Hairday.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

...

ESPs

 

( x = be aware, I never used it myself ;))

 

And it's worth trying the official 1.6 patch only, instead of unoffcial or fake patch.

 

 

@gsmanners

Yeah, GfWL is a PITA. It doesn't have any big advantages but since it is that intecrated into the game, it causes a lot of crashes.

1. update it
   
2. disable it
   
3. forget it
   

[csb]

You could play FOMM Shuffle with your load order, but it will only get you so far. To really resolve mod conflicts you need FO3Edit by ElminsterAU and Miax's great FO3Edit Guide - Web-enized to learn how to find and resolve mod conflicts. By the way, FO3Edit (and the guide) is an invaluable utility for mod authors as well.

 

Hope this helps.

 

ps: I'd get rid of Hairday and go with LingsFinerThings - Coiffure.esm as a resource master for cosmetics. Both HairPack and Hairday haven't been updated recently and Earache42 is constantly updating his whole Ling's line. I use FO3Edit to change/add the LFT-C master to mods that required the antiquated/limited cosmetic packs and haven't regretted it since.

[AlienSlof]

Yeah, the GFWL thing is a pain - I don't use it, never will either, so it needs disabling. I disabled most of the mods, did a clean save of my guy, then put them back in a better order. This seems to have helped. I've also been told that using FOSE will disable GFWL, so perhaps that is a route I can take to avoid it.

 

I'll look at Ling's - though I thought it was all just female stuff? I don't play females or use female companions - or the body that mod uses - so kind of passed it by. Might be worth another look. Either that, or i'll just collect a load of hairs and eyelashes together and make my own hair mod.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions - it all helps. I won't part with my MMM though - game's way too easy without it and it adds more stuff for my boy to practise his marksmanship on! ;)

 

My load order is now looking like this:

 

Fallout3.esm

Anchorage.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

ThePitt.esm

PointLookout.esm

Zeta.esm

Hairday.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp

CRBSOR [Achievements Removed].esp

The Pitt Crash Fix.esp

Point Lookout Travel Fix.esp

FolloweresEnterNewCell.esp

DarNifiedUIF3.esp

Repair Rethought.esp

PCIdles.esp

EvergreenAE.esp

Radiation Glow 08 eng less 15sek.esp

NPC Height Randomizer.esp

Slof's Alsatian Dogmeat.esp

Sack of Holding.esp

bzJocks.esp

bzArmour-nude.esp

Myerz_Items.esp

Megaton House and Theme Overhaul.esp

bzFatigues.esp

kikaiEquipment.esp

Slof's Boners!.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp

 

I added the last two DLC's - aliens yey! - which I had been loath to add to an already unstable game. I also updated the Unofficial Patch, as I was indeed running an old version. Kikai sent me a few of her fixes as well that the patch missed, so hopefully, I am all set to go now.

 

Again, many thanks for all the suggestions - it all helps! :thumbsup:

[gsmanners]

It is true that FOSE bypasses the *normal* functionality of GfWL, however you will still need to disable the xlive.dll if you want to avoid the associated freezing and crashing. I learned that the hard way.

[csb]

You can disable xlive.dll in FOMM (click the tweaks button and check the disable box).

 

AlienSlof, I've seen your work over the years, and I've liked what you've done -- why a new cosmetic pack? A collaboration with Earache42, however, would IMO be a huge benefit to the community. I say this because (a) Earache is actively committed to keeping Ling's up-to-date and (b) you are a proven community contributor. The problem I encounter with mods is the inherent lack of consistency that ultimately leads to user frustration because mods end up conflicting, so I am on this evangelical kick for compatibility. :biggrin:

 

Projects like FOIP, etc. help -- especially with huge projects like FWE, MMM, FOOK2, etc. -- but in the end, more cross-talk and collaboration between mod authors would result in less user frustration. So I end up spending a lot of time in FO3Edit -- correcting mod conflicts that should not exist. Mods that aren't cleaned of "Identical to Master" records and other Mod Cleaning processes in Miax's great FO3Edit Guide - Web-enized. The sad fact I've learned since using FO3Edit is that 90% or more of mod issues are avoidable.

 

Of the remaining 10% (if the utopian clean-mod goal were reached), the vast majority are easily fixed with a merge patch by the user (or better yet, by mod authors in collaboration). So, despite Miax's strong warnings to the contrary, I do mod cleaning on everything I DL from Fallout3 Nexus (except those mods that explicitly say on their page or in their readme that they cleaned their mod with FO3Edit) -- it's sort of a user self-defense against bad modding habits.

 

When using FO3Edit, I start with the Create Merge Patch function. (Okay I lied :whistling: ... First I play FOMM Load-Order Shuffle and check conflicts in FO3Edit -- but soon you reach the point where load ordering alone won't solve anything else.) The automated merge is my starting point. Trust me, conflicts will still exist after-the-fact. This is because a good number of mod conflicts fall in the "gray" area of user choice. I then go through every mod's records, expanding the tree and resolving the remaining conflicts, adding them to my merge.

 

Some of that is cosmetic, like with NPC and custom race mods ... and there is no "right" resolution except for what is aesthetically pleasing to you. But there are the more subtle kinds ... where a mod author didn't clear "Identical to Master" records in modding (without any of the DLCs), so their level 20 "Identical to Master" record overwrites the Broken Steel level 30 adjustment. See what I mean about a needless conflict?

 

More subtle are script conflicts. The "last one wins" can be helped by load order, but it often arises that you need two mods to "win" so their scripts are available to carry out their functionality. This is where more modder cross-talk would help a lot -- because script conflicts can screw up the game both in subtle ways and game-crashing ways. (Psst, Nexus forum, here's where you can have a modders-only forum maybe -- something for mod authors to collaborate and not have their posts lost amid the general public? Just a thought.) The only solution is to go into GECK and take both scripts and merge them in your own plug-in and adding it just before your own merge patch. But the majority of people aren't comfortable in GECK (me included, I'm just starting to learn it), so it places a huge burden on users.

 

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. :biggrin:

 

Looking at your load order in specific, you should be fairly good-to-go. You'll mainly want to look at those "subtle" kinds of mod conflicts. It's a necessary evil to ensure that the intent of every mod and its functionality are met ... and thus keep the game engine happy (okay, happier :biggrin: ... it's still going to crash on occasion, we all know that).

 

If you play any custom races (like ghoul, tribal or raider, for instance), you'll want to add CREBSOR (Custom Race Ending Broken Steel OverRide) toward the end of your list. That'll get you through the end scene and into Broken Steel (of course, it isn't necessary if you don't want to go through BS again or don't play custom races).

 

Anyway, good luck with your conflict-hunting. And go play Fallout3! :smile:

[phoneyLogic]

@csb

You'll never be able to eliminate all mod conflicts. E.g. there are some scripts that you hardly could replace without touching more and more other things, just like defeating a hydra. Such mods will work just great, unless they will find a conflict partner :P. But I feel your pain about the unecessary ones...

[AlienSlof]

Sadly, it still crashes on save. :wallbash:

 

It saves the first one absolutely fine, but the one after that it crashes. Using Pronam's Fast Saver, I set it to 5 mins between saves and as soon as the 5 minutes was up, BAM, back to desktop without even saving anything.

 

I think this game is determined to not like me!

 

Hair mod wise, I'm sticking with Hairday for now (not that it matters right now with the crashing) as it just does hair and eyes. I don't really want all the additional female stuff as it's not really any use to me.

 

*bangs head on desk in frustration*

[Pronam]

How about the uncorrupt-save trick? Save your game then blow yourself up and the use that save again. (Lol, no I'm serious.)

Any other solutions, install the latest version of .NET framework.

Try that CASM. I've heard that some people got in trouble when having more than just a few saves...that one just uses a few.

Try Gamebooster. Not for the performance but to check if anything else is interfering with your game. It allows you to shut down background-programs for a moment. (and turn them back on ;).)

Tum off GFWL like that one said on bethsoft. (apparently there's a mod of it). GFWL can magically let saves working, but as you have trouble with it it might be wise to shut it off.