Adamastor Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 i would really like to see some inteligent and educated discution of what we ('we' society not 'we' the users of this forum) presently think our universe is and speculation (with suporting agruments) of what it could be. since i started this thread i might aswell pose the first hipothesis: due to the dopler efect we know that all (im not sure about all but almost) the galaxies are actually moving away from us. from here we deduce the idea that the universe is expanding. from which we inturn extrapolate that the universe was once very small and thus the big bang.now i have 2 things here. 1) is there any further data that also suggests the big bang independantly? and 2) could the galaxies not be orbiting some larger mass just like the solar systems obit the galactic center, the planets obit a star, and the moons orbit the planets? and is there anything that disproves this? all responce welcome but i would prefer it if the answers came from people who sorta know what they are talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 One piece of experimental data which is in perfect agreement with the big bang theory is the cosmic microwave background radiation. Big Bang theory predicted that as the universe expanded it would also cool, and that the temperature of the universe was calculated to be 3 degrees above absolute 0. And radiation corresponding to this temperature was discovered experimentally - a microwave background signal which comes from every direction rather than a single source. Regarding the stars and galaxies orbiting some larger mass - I have forgotten pretty much all the maths I ever knew, and a lot of the physics (shameful, I know), but two things spring to mind immediately.1. the direction of the acceleration - I think there is no significant rotational element to it to indicate the influence of a vast mass causing it 2. such a mass would have to be vast, and so should be detectable by its influence on the objects in its vicinity. You would expect, for instance, gigantic accretion disks, which in turn would produce radiation as interstellar matter is sucked towards it. Also, the gravitational effect of such a mass would significantly distort light passing it - and the deflection could be measured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltiraaz Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I personally don't believe in the big-bang theory or evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Reaper Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I personally don't believe in the big-bang theory or evolution. What do you belive then? :huh: Religion? :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltiraaz Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I believe in God. Evolution has already been proved wrong anyway, Darwin said himself that it was impossible on his deathbed, and the tests that NASA did in the eighties proved it. I believe in the story that the bible sets out for me, nothing less, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I believe in God. Evolution has already been proved wrong anyway, Darwin said himself that it was impossible on his deathbed, and the tests that NASA did in the eighties proved it. I believe in the story that the bible sets out for me, nothing less, nothing more. same here. besides, how demeaning is it to think that we evolved from apes :blink: also that the universe expanded from some random quantum phenomenon trillions of years ago... yeah right how on earth can we know what happened back then?? do we have time machines yet? nope. so i wish theyd stop saying all this stuff as if they had some kind of real proof to back it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltiraaz Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 These are a few of the reasons why I believe what I do about evolution... If we evolved from apes.. Why haven't apes evolved?? Why haven't we evolved further?? Why hasn't any other species evolved enough to develop conciousness?? Where did we get conciousness from?? ************************************************************** I can't believe no matter how hard I try that it is a pure fluke that every single infinate blade of grass and snowflake is completely different. Us humans are amazing things. Theres no way I can believe that all the love, hate, and other emotions came into being because two atoms went *clunk*. When you take the time to think about it, it sounds pretty pathetic doesn't it. I have faith, alot of faith in what I believe. But it strikes me at how much more faith all the Aetheists must have that two atoms, or protons or whatever they're calling them now collided and formed all of the stuff we have around us. Just look out your windows. Can you honestly tell yourself, "two itty-bitty little molecules made that"?? But it all comes down to what you want to believe in - That God loves us, made us, and wants to take us to heaven - or that sludge turned into people. :rolleyes: Eltiraaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 LOL - i couldnt have put it better myself. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Eltiraaz: Why haven't apes evolved?Evolution is a process born of need and condition. Neither the need nor the condition required for the evolution of apes into any organism that more closely resembles humans exists today. The main point of Darwin's theory was "Survival of the Fittest." Apes are far from perfection (...as are we), but they manage pretty well.Eltiraaz: Why haven't we evolved further?Refer back to my original response. Also, it is very likely that we are evolving.Eltiraaz: Why hasn't any other species evolved enough to develop conciousness?To say that every thing else on the planet, and even every organism in the universe, is not self aware is not only arrogant, but downright stupid.Eltiraaz: Where did we get conciousness from?It's called a brain. And you should use it more often, rather than believing a work of fiction just because it has the word "HOLY" printed on it. So now, I suppose it is my turn. All you bible thumpers out there, please prove, beyond any possible doubt, that the Christian diety exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Ok, tone down the language a bit - personal attacks are inappropriate here. Eltiraaz - do you take the bible literally? If not, how exactly do you explain the origin of the universe? The big bang theory is in accordance with observational data, manages to provide a coherent and self-consistent framework within which everything we see in the universe around us can be explained. It provides an explanation of what happened from the big bang onwards to the formation of the planet - consistent in that both the timescale and the distribution of matter agree with observations. I have already mentioned the cosmic microwave background, which I am happy to accept as proof that the big bang occurred. Nobody has as yet found any evidence of the existence of a god, though. The timescale given by the bible is hopelessly inaccurate. The bible fails to explain the fossil record. Also, how did different races appear if all humanity was descended from a single couple - no, from a single set of DNA, since Eve was Adam's clone? Without evolution, shouldn't everyone look exactly the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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