Seperation of Church and State.

[Albareth]

I'm for it personally, I think it's ludicrous to still try and keep one religion above others by tieing it to the runnings of the country daily. Sort of like the pledge of alliance (or whatever it's called, not american myself), seems very unfair to people of other religions.

 

Will post further later. ;)

[Mojlnir]

It's the "Pledge of Allegiance" Albareth, though I'll bet you 10-1 that if you asked someone one the street to repeat it they couldn't do it. The separation of church and state is critical for the creation and maintenance of a strong civil society. There is no denying that many Western governments were founded on principles that derive at least in part from Christianity, but that in no way means that such governments must push said religion. Government exists for the people, the people do not exist for the government. Individuals have certain inalienable rights that governments are created to protect. This does not include the pushing of a state religion. Everyone should be free to worship and believe what they will. Government simply does not have the right to dictate or espouse a given vain of religious beliefs.

[Eltiraaz]

I'm a Christian, but I still feel that it's not just to force your moral beliefs on others. For example, I respect my Prime Minister, Jean Chretien greatly after he legalized same-sex marriages. I do not agree on the topic personally, but it took alot of conviction to say "Even though my religion is against it, Canada isn't about the colour of your skin or the god that you worship, its about freedom of expression, whatever those expressions may be." I am for the seperation of the Church and the State.

 

Eltiraaz

[ThetaOrionis01]

I think when there is any involvement of religion in government it leads to the state forcing this belief upon others - which IMO is against the right to freedom of religion.

 

For instance, up in the north of Scotland, in the Outer Hebrides, it is illegal to do pretty much anything on a Sunday ( the 'sabbath')... I remember that there used to be a huge outcry when it was suggested that maybe the ferry to the mainland might be allowed to run on a Sunday.

 

I am strongly opposed to religious observance in schools, and I think that a religious service in Parliament is completely out of place, too.

 

 

I think that any remaining connection between church and state is an anachronism - a throwback to the middle ages, when religious and secular power went hand in hand. And I'm sure everyone can think of a few examples of what this alliance of church and state led to - genocide, witch hunts, crusades etc.

 

Time the last links between church and state were severed, IMO.

[ASCLEPUS]

I believe we are missing the point. I intend no disrespect, but it was never the Founding Fathers belief that the State be estranged from the church (based on their own writings). They understood that government is made up of people and people need religion or some form of ethical belief to function as a society. Their main concern was that the State would not control the church as it was in so many nations when this country was founded. They were also careful that no organized religious body would wield the power the Roman Catholic Church did during the middle ages. The concept of absolute seperation of church and State is ludicrous in that to fully follow that path one must remove the human element. Terminator anyone?

 

It must be remebered that at the time, Christianity was a valued element of society. Many of the Founding Fathers were Christian. Many were not, yet they still honored the belief system of their fore-fathers. The USA was founded almost entirely on Christian morality. It would be foolish (no insults intended here) to disregard our heritage or attempt to remove symbols, phrases or representations of our religious affiliations because of an overly strict interpretation. I ask all of you to read carefully the letters and journals of those who architected the US constitution and tell me what else you can conclude.

[Eltiraaz]

By "slogans and sayings" would you be referring to "God Bless America", "God keep our land glorious and free" (exert from Canada's national Anthem), "In God we Trust" etc. and other thing like that??

[ThetaOrionis01]

The concept of absolute seperation of church and State is ludicrous in that to fully follow that path one must remove the human element. Terminator anyone?

Could you please elaborate on that point?

[blackmage256]

this topic is manly about the removal of the 2-tonne statue of the ten comandments the entire reason that the comandments were there is because when it was placed and hope fully still now the ten comandments are almost completely* identical to the moral standard

 

 

 

*exept the first one

[Mojlnir]

The current uproar concerning the monument is only the most recent iteration of this debate. What is really at stake here is the stability of society within a given country. My comments are US is basis, as that is my sphere of experience. In the US today we are less the "melting pot" of old and more of what I would call a "salad bowl." No longer are immigrants expected to shed their cultural backgrounds, rather most groups embrace their differences and incorporate them into our everyday lives. Intrinsic to many of these differences is the variety of religions that we find within our borders today. These different veins of faith do not weaken us, rather they combine to create a fascinating sea of diversity and strength. It is not only wrong, but counter-productive to attempt to paint one religion as being the "national religion" and seek to ignore the others.

It is quite right to say that the Framers did not work in a religious vaccum, in fact it was very much the opposite. However, it is not the overtly religious aspects of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that have survived, rather, the ideas of freedom, liberty, equality, and the rights to free speach and religion are what is taught to school kids across the nation. Tradition, and little else, dictates that we say "In God We Trust" and "God Bless America." The government does not exist to purvey a given religion, rather to protect the right of all persons to practice and believe what they will. It is senseless to deny the origins of our laws, but it is just as senseless to push them into everyone's faces as seems to be occurring with this monument issue. Such foolhardiness only breaks us apart, rather than binding us together.

[Feanor11]

Just to start, the monument fiasco is just like George Wallace standing in front of the door so black kids coudn't enter. There complete religious fanatics who although are part of government, refuse to put it above their religious and moral beliefs. But since the government, not religion is the law of the lands, that can't mix.

 

As for the seperation of church and state debate as a whole, I believe that they should have nothing to do with one another. Unfortunately, when our founding fathers created this country, their religious bias took hold in some places.

 

As for our pledge of allegiance, the part "under God" should most definitely be removed. In fact, it wasn't even added till the early to mid 1900's, so why not take it out?

 

Finally, when a President is sworn into office, he places his hand on a bible. This, at least to me, is the most blatant example of church overlapping with state.

 

People should be free to practice whatever religion they wish to, and even if they choose to not practice any. And government should be seperate. Unfortunatley, changes will never happen when you have a President who would stand in front of the 10 Commandments monument too, given the chance.