Harbringe Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah. The idea of eliminating corruption shouldn't be the candy bearers but those who love the candy so much they would screw everyone else over to get it. Corruption is a disease of the heart, not of the pocketbook. Lobbyist can stand there all day long holding out billions in front of these politicians. What the politicians do is what effects you! Cant agree with that . If I bribe someone for a certain end , is my corruption of heart less than the one I bribe or if I pay someone to murder someone is my crime less than the one who does the murdering . The only way to deal with corruption is to treat those who took part in it with equal punishment , otherwise you start creating the means by which corruption will flourish by making distinctions of degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Corruption already flourishes here. (USA) In fact, a fair bit of it has been legalized, and the supreme court is making more of it legal. There is not one single honest politician within the beltway. ALL of them are dirty. Some new guy may sing the praises of honesty, and 'government for the people' while on the campaign trail, but, after a couple weeks in washington, he realizes that his ideals have no place in the current political climate. That is, if he wants to stand a chance of completing his term/get re-elected..... He turns out just like the rest of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvnchrist Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah. The idea of eliminating corruption shouldn't be the candy bearers but those who love the candy so much they would screw everyone else over to get it. Corruption is a disease of the heart, not of the pocketbook. Lobbyist can stand there all day long holding out billions in front of these politicians. What the politicians do is what effects you! Cant agree with that . If I bribe someone for a certain end , is my corruption of heart less than the one I bribe or if I pay someone to murder someone is my crime less than the one who does the murdering . The only way to deal with corruption is to treat those who took part in it with equal punishment , otherwise you start creating the means by which corruption will flourish by making distinctions of degrees. Where did I say they don't deserve punishment ? Did I say anything to that? I said that what a politician does effects you. Lobbyists will do what lobbyists do. I said they could set there all day long holding out money, but until it is taken, there will not be any effect on the public. If no politicians take bribes these lobbyist will soon not make them, since they would have no incentive to do so and every incentive not to. The politicians put out the "for sale" sign, not the lobbyists. You take away the prize and no one will come to try and claim it. It's the same concept as drug smuggling. If Americans did not buy the drugs coming up from Mexico, would there be any coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Sounded to me as if you were giving those who bribe a pass , but if that is not the case , then Americans have got nothing to complain about because they keep putting them (those who take this form of legalized bribery) in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvnchrist Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Sounded to me as if you were giving those who bribe a pass , but if that is not the case , then Americans have got nothing to complain about because they keep putting them (those who take this form of legalized bribery) in office.Excuse me. First of all this is a systemic problem that has been around and as for the fact that one can only elect congressman from their own state into office there is virtually nothing we can do except vote in those who say they will change the sustem. After they are in, they are in. If they fail to act we vote in another who says the same thing as the first. What would you have us do. Storm the congress and hold the congress to our standards at gunpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Sounded to me as if you were giving those who bribe a pass , but if that is not the case , then Americans have got nothing to complain about because they keep putting them (those who take this form of legalized bribery) in office.Excuse me. First of all this is a systemic problem that has been around and as for the fact that one can only elect congressman from their own state into office there is virtually nothing we can do except vote in those who say they will change the sustem. After they are in, they are in. If they fail to act we vote in another who says the same thing as the first. What would you have us do. Storm the congress and hold the congress to our standards at gunpoint? I am thinkin' that's about the only way anything is going to change........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindekarr Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) I think Congressmen should have to wear sponsorship logos on their clothes, kind of like a racing car. Not only would it show exactly where the money is coming from, it would also be funny and humiliate the congressmen and that's always a good thing. Honestly though, I admire the idealism but this is sort of how capitalism works, and always has worked, when mixed with democracy. Ever since organised governments, let alone democracy got started there have been advisors, retainers, men and women of influence who can use their power to influence the laws of the land. A lot of this influence falls into moral grey-areas, but it's as old as time and isn't always a bad thing. A ban on lobbying would only hurt the few people who use it for what it's intended for. The corrupt people you're worried about would simply go even further under-board, and continue what they've been doing. I understand where you're coming from and sometimes wish we could just get rid of all of them, but unfortunately in doing so we'd only damage our own democracy-the cockroaches would evade the boot so to speak. Edited May 23, 2014 by Vindekarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) Our democracy is going the way of the dodo in any event. The republican party is now trying to get ALL caps removed from fundraising. Their claim is "The super-pacs can do it, and we can't, that is a violation of our first amendment rights." Apparently, money=free speech has become an accepted fact in washington...... I do NOT see that as a good thing. We are heading more and more toward a plutocracy every day. Don't see that as a good thing either..... Edited May 24, 2014 by HeyYou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvnchrist Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 When lawmakers become lawbreakers there is no law, only a fight for survival - Tom Laughlin from the movie Billy Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 When lawmakers become lawbreakers there is no law, only a fight for survival - Tom Laughlin from the movie Billy Jack.They just pass laws to make what they are doing legal...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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