Israel, and Gaza.

[HeyYou]

Long before a seaport, or airport show up, the rockets will be flying again. The only 'real' concession they got, was the fishing area was expanded by three miles more from the coast. (out to six miles) Now, 'humanitarian' aid is coming in..... question becomes, what will Hamas use it for? Will they actually try and HELP their people, or, will they build more tunnels to attack Israel?

 

Israeli handling of the three teens was WAY over the top. I will grant you that.... but then, kidnapping, and killing three teens, simply because they are jewish settlers, isn't what I consider a 'good plan' either. Hamas doesn't even PRETEND to 'just' attack military targets. They SPECIFICALLY target civilians. And you wonder why Israel goes overboard on the retaliation?

 

I haven't read the Israeli constitution either, but, I am unsure if the tactics they used would actually be considered 'illegal' there. For all I know, mass arrests might be standard operating procedure for them.

 

Is Israel completely innocent here? Nope. Not by a long shot. Are the Palestinians just the victims of a neighborhood bully? Nope. It is far more complicated than that. BOTH sides share the blame for the current situation. You could roll that all the way back to the folks that decided giving the jews their own homeland, on someone else's current homeland.... That was a recipe for disaster from the inception, and that is exactly what we have. There really isn't a solution that is going to be acceptable to all sides. It simply isn't going to happen. Both sides have their issues they won't budge on, and they happen to have opposite opinions on those issues. Not to mention Hamas has bluntly stated one of their major goals is the destruction of Israel........

 

This is a problem the US has been poking at for decades. We are no closer to a solution now, than we were when we started, and for the very same reasons. This is a problem without a solution, aside from the total destruction of one side, or the other.

[kvnchrist]

Who ever said any of it was right , its not a matter of right , its a matter of what can be expected . Hey You has stated that Hamas started this by firing rockets , this simply is not true . The arresting of hundreds (both militant and non militant types) for a crime they didn't commit , bulldozing of dozens of homes and the killing of a number of them is what started this , the rockets are but a predictable escalation. Its predictable because if your on the Israeli side you know they have no other means by which to respond . Which tells you it was a calculated move by Israel to bring about exactly this response from Hamas. Question is why. And to be fair its not proper to simply say Israel , because this is really the actions of one person, Netanyahu who has brought this all about.

 

How so , well from day one Netanyahu blamed Hamas without even letting his police investigators carry out a proper investigation to determine who was responsible , the day after the teens disappeared an audio recording was released from one of the teens who had called 911 as they were being kidnapped in which you can clearly hear them being murdered , it took 2 and a half weeks of legal wrangling before the Israeli Supreme Court for them to tell Netanyahu that his gag order that he immediately had placed on the recording was illegal as you cannot suppress evidence in a criminal investigation and ordered the gag order lifted . Yet during that time it was in place Netanyahu pretended the Israeli teens were still alive vowing to find them , even to the point of lying to the parents of the murdered teens . All the while whipping up public support for a war in Gaza , lies by their very nature are calculative , you lie for a reason.

 

Yet in North American media and largely in European media (not totally though) you barely hear a word about this . Because by and large one narrative plays out over our media when it comes to this and currently that narrative is virtually solely coming out of the PM 's Office of Benjamin Netanyahu.

 

Here's the recording.

 

 

As for why would David throw pebbles at Goliath , well when Goliath is arresting , bulldozing ,and killing with impunity , what would you have David do just sit there and get beat up , not realistic and rather stupid to presume they would. Beside it has netted them something , in the truce negotiations they have gotten the blockade eased and they is to be a seaport and airport built . Only time will tell if it bears out.

 

I couldn't make heads or tails of what supposidly went on in that recording. I heard something that sounded like shots, but how does that guarentee the shots went into these kids. I heard about the taking of these teens, but didn't hear about any of the rest. Anyway, how do you know that it wasn't a calculated attempt to bring upon their citizenry what happened. I'm sure they knew what Isreals sop for certain situations and knew if they did this that the Isrealites would automatically do that and they would respond thusly and it would most asuridly end up the way it did.

 

It's like the old saying. "Don't start and S^it and no s^it will get started"'

 

Please don't tell me there aren't people out there who don't start crap just to see if they can get crapped on. The following youtube is a very good example of this. It is also race baiting.

 

[HeyYou]

Those guys are just farking stupid.

[Thor.]

While the Gaza War rages on, something more sinister is lurking in the distance, the media is almost starting to look like they are sponsoring them, yet acknowledging their so called state in which the media should be disbanding the the idea, though rejecting it in the process. You are only allowing them to gain headroom which is scary none the less.

[kvnchrist]

Those guys are just farking stupid.

They are doiing the same thing Hamas is doing. Starting something that ultimately brings them more attention from the outside world. The only thing is that humas is setting up shop in civilian areas that gaurentees civilian casualties and these idiots on this vid are the only casualties of their endevour.

[kvnchrist]

While the Gaza War rages on, something more sinister is lurking in the distance, the media is almost starting to look like they are sponsoring them, yet acknowledging their so called state in which the media should be disbanding the the idea, though rejecting it in the process. You are only allowing them to gain headroom which is scary none the less.

The media is for the media. Their product is information and the juicier the better. They have all the incentive to sensationalize and no inclination to bring anything but cameras.

[Harbringe]

@ Kvnchrist

 

Because that is the conclusions Israeli police authorities have come to . The audio is being spoken in Hebrew , it came from one of the murder teens making a call to 911 , it has been analyzed by Israeli police authorities who have determined those are actual gunshots you are hearing and the coroners approximation of death and the time index of the recording closely coincide as best as a coroner can make that kind of approximation. Its no absolute gaurantee but you go with the evidence you have and its the Israeli police investigation that has made this determination.

 

As for Hamas doing this just to provoke the Israeli's is nonsense . They had just signed a unity deal with the Palestinian Authority (putting to rest 7 years of discord) with the intent of taking the Palestinian issue before the UN and the International Court of Justice . So just as they finish signing this they immediately go out and do something that will discredit the whole thing. So in one sense they are these Machiavellian geniuses manipulating the Israeli's and in the other stupid by discrediting the very deal the have signed with their fellow Palestinians , not likely.

 

As for the rockets yes , they were meant to make the Israeli's come and fight them , the only other option is to let Israel continue , arresting , bulldozing , killing them . Fire rockets or continue getting slapped around what do you expect to happen. Its predictable.

[kvnchrist]

@ Kvnchrist

 

Because that is the conclusions Israeli police authorities have come to . The audio is being spoken in Hebrew , it came from one of the murder teens making a call to 911 , it has been analyzed by Israeli police authorities who have determined those are actual gunshots you are hearing and the coroners approximation of death and the time index of the recording closely coincide as best as a coroner can make that kind of approximation. Its no absolute gaurantee but you go with the evidence you have and its the Israeli police investigation that has made this determination.

 

As for Hamas doing this just to provoke the Israeli's is nonsense . They had just signed a unity deal with the Palestinian Authority (putting to rest 7 years of discord) with the intent of taking the Palestinian issue before the UN and the International Court of Justice . So just as they finish signing this they immediately go out and do something that will discredit the whole thing. So in one sense they are these Machiavellian geniuses manipulating the Israeli's and in the other stupid by discrediting the very deal the have signed with their fellow Palestinians , not likely.

 

As for the rockets yes , they were meant to make the Israeli's come and fight them , the only other option is to let Israel continue , arresting , bulldozing , killing them . Fire rockets or continue getting slapped around what do you expect to happen. Its predictable.

 

 

When were the bodies found? You stated that the video was kept from the publc, but the coroner could not do his job unless the bodies were found. Did these areasts and bulldozing happen before or after the bodies were found and even if they were what makes you think that the rest is not just retaliation by the isrealites.

 

As far as putting this into action to provoke isreal, it is not nonsence since you are describing an organization who first and formost wants to wipe isreal off the face of the map. Whatever they do else may simpy be window dressing. Anyone who would fire rockets from civilain areas in order to bring retaliation to those civilians don't care about the palistinians in their own area. What makes you thnk they give a rats rear end about the Palisianian authority?

[Harbringe]

 

@ Kvnchrist

 

 

 

When were the bodies found? You stated that the video was kept from the publc, but the coroner could not do his job unless the bodies were found. Did these areasts and bulldozing happen before or after the bodies were found and even if they were what makes you think that the rest is not just retaliation by the isrealites.

 

As far as putting this into action to provoke isreal, it is not nonsence since you are describing an organization who first and formost wants to wipe isreal off the face of the map. Whatever they do else may simpy be window dressing. Anyone who would fire rockets from civilain areas in order to bring retaliation to those civilians don't care about the palistinians in their own area. What makes you thnk they give a rats rear end about the Palisianian authority?

 

 

They disappeared on June 12 and were found on June 30 and yes the arrests , bulldozing and killings had been going on for over 2 weeks . That started almost immediately after the teens disappeared. And of course its retaliation , its retaliation for retaliation's sake . You (Netanyahu) don't allow a proper investigation to determine who did it but immediately launch into going after Hamas , gag an audio recording indicating the teens were already dead , then fight your own Supreme Court to prevent it from being released , all the while whipping up public support for a war in Gaza . What else could it be but retaliation for retaliations sake .

 

Its pretty simple , a murder happens and you determine who is culpable and that is done by your Police and Judicial services and if its Hamas or members of Hamas or a rogue cell (which is who they ended up arresting) once you got something you tell Hamas turn these people over ( be it a rogue cell or even their own members) or face the consequences and if they don't then you fry their asses . But he (Netanyahu) didn't do that , at all.

 

The question was would they (Hamas) put at risk a deal with the PA that puts to rest 7 years of discord between them in the hope that by doing so they could present a united front in negotiations and if that fails they will take it to the UN and the ICJ and would they risk this just to go out and murder 3 unimportant teens , utter nonsense . The rest of your sentence is just a bunch of red herring conflationary reasoning.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

@ Kvnchrist

 

 

 

When were the bodies found? You stated that the video was kept from the publc, but the coroner could not do his job unless the bodies were found. Did these areasts and bulldozing happen before or after the bodies were found and even if they were what makes you think that the rest is not just retaliation by the isrealites.

 

As far as putting this into action to provoke isreal, it is not nonsence since you are describing an organization who first and formost wants to wipe isreal off the face of the map. Whatever they do else may simpy be window dressing. Anyone who would fire rockets from civilain areas in order to bring retaliation to those civilians don't care about the palistinians in their own area. What makes you thnk they give a rats rear end about the Palisianian authority?

 

 

They disappeared on June 12 and were found on June 30 and yes the arrests , bulldozing and killings had been going on for over 2 weeks . That started almost immediately after the teens disappeared. And of course its retaliation , its retaliation for retaliation's sake . You (Netanyahu) don't allow a proper investigation to determine who did it but immediately launch into going after Hamas , gag an audio recording indicating the teens were already dead , then fight your own Supreme Court to prevent it from being released , all the while whipping up public support for a war in Gaza . What else could it be but retaliation for retaliations sake .

 

Its pretty simple , a murder happens and you determine who is culpable and that is done by your Police and Judicial services and if its Hamas or members of Hamas or a rogue cell (which is who they ended up arresting) once you got something you tell Hamas turn these people over ( be it a rogue cell or even their own members) or face the consequences and if they don't then you fry their asses . But he (Netanyahu) didn't do that , at all.

 

The question was would they (Hamas) put at risk a deal with the PA that puts to rest 7 years of discord between them in the hope that by doing so they could present a united front in negotiations and if that fails they will take it to the UN and the ICJ and would they risk this just to go out and murder 3 unimportant teens , utter nonsense . The rest of your sentence is just a bunch of red herring conflationary reasoning.

 

You act as though these murders happened here or in any other counry where there has never been a history of violence. This has not and never will be the case in that part of the world. If it isn't people from different religions fighting eachother it is people of the same faith, but different sects. Are you saying that he should have sent the isreal police over into Gaza and had them question, who?

 

As for being nonsence fr doing what the palistianians have been doing for decade in order to try something different, while still holding onto the statement that they want isreal eradicated is not nonsence. You act like hamas actually needs the pa for something. They have been seperated from them for how long and they've thrived. They are still getting supplied by other countries. It's nonsence to take these peoples word at face value.