I'm beginning to find it harder to hate the Thalmor...

[Lachdonin]

 

 

Personally, since The Cave is linked to Shor, i think it's the Nords worship of Talos and not their REAL god which deactivated the tower.

Do you mean that because the Nords nowadays worship Talos more than Shor that Snow-Throat is deactivated?

In part, yes. We also have Shor's notable absence from Sovengarde, the disappearance of the Heart of Lorkhan, and we don't know where the moon's went...

 

I am increasingly of the mind that Snow-Throat was linked in some way to Shor, in the same way that Red Mountain was linked to the Heart of Lorkhan. Theres even the mountain symbol in both. Remove The heart, deactivate Red Mountain. Remove Shor, deactivate Snow-Throat.

 

Frankly, I hope we getting to see Lorkhan reborn and kick Talos in his sacrilegious ass.

[monganfinn]

That´s a really interesting theory!

 

However the heroes of Sovngarde told the PC that Shor only left because mortals wouldn´t survive seeing him, I am inclined to believe them on this.

 

Furthermore, as I am no expert on the mantling process I could be wrong, shouldn´t Talos have "replaced" Shor while mantling him? And Wulfharth would have mantled Shor´s warrior aspect while Tiber Septim mantled the "politician"/trickster aspect - to my understanding.

Therefore I would rather believe that Talos took up Shors position as pillar of Snow-Throat. Which in turn means that Snow-Throat could only be deactivated if Talos, Wulfharth, Shor and Zacrin Arctus? all vanish, which is realisticaly impossible since Talos is CHIM.

 

I at least think that mantling functions by "harmonizing" the "spirit-wavelength" of two or more entities, which means that they are the same being only in different locations and aspects. Thus your theory would, I believe, only work if Shor would have needed to remain totally "pure" or undiluted in comparison from his form when he was in the cave.

Edited October 12, 2014 by monganfinn

[Lachdonin]

Well, end of the day, i think the Heroes in Sovengarde are about as stupid as the rest of the Nords. We've seen Daedric Princes in their own realms, and watched Akatosh erase Dagon from Mundus. Shor isn't even a full god. I know the REAL reason he wasn't there (someone at Bethesda was uncomfortable showing a god) but given what else we've seen, the explanation given is exceedingly weak.

 

As for the mantling... Talos mantled Lorkhan, of which Shor is only one part. Not only that, but the specifics of that Mantle allowed Talos to walk all of the Walking Ways at once, including CHIM. He both Mantled Lorkhan, and remained independent of him. Because of this, Shor, the Void Snake, the Shezzarines etc. should all still be around.

[monganfinn]

 

(someone at Bethesda was uncomfortable showing a god)

Well yes, naturally.

However, both examples of the Daedric Princes and Martin Septim as Akatosh are of beings who are less divine than Shor or Lorkhan.

 

 

Talos mantled Lorkhan, of which Shor is only one part.

Though I don´t understand why Shor should only be a part of Lorkhan, both suffered the same fate at the Convention. They are one merely called two names. Even if they act a bit different, their deaths at the hands of Trinimiac are the same.

So no matter how lazy the people at Bethesda are and how bad an excuse they gave, for it stands to reason that Shor could have "diminished" his aura so that mortals with a dovahsil! could see him witout dying, it doesn´t change that the Heroes should know if Shor is never! there. At least if they aren´t lying to the PC.

 

 

As for the mantling... Talos mantled Lorkhan, of which Shor is only one part. Not only that, but the specifics of that Mantle allowed Talos to walk all of the Walking Ways at once, including CHIM. He both Mantled Lorkhan, and remained independent of him. Because of this, Shor, the Void Snake, the Shezzarines etc. should all still be around.

So if Talos is still separate from Shor/Lorkhan than Talos should have not erased Shor in such a way that would deactivate Snow-Throat. After all Talos never really replaces Shor/Lorkhan in any pantheon. Even if we say that Snow-Throat is only tied to the nordic Shor as long as Sovngarde exists, the nordic Shor should as well, afterall Sovngarde is only tied to Shor no other aedra.

Thus at minimum to deactivate Snow-Throat the Nord would have to stop wanting to go to Sovngarde and renounce Shor, which probably won´t happen unless all Nords are killed. However even in this case, perhaps, Talos would absorb Shor´s "mantles", if he is still worshipped by Nords.

[Lachdonin]

 

 

(someone at Bethesda was uncomfortable showing a god)

Well yes, naturally.

However, both examples of the Daedric Princes and Martin Septim as Akatosh are of beings who are less divine than Shor or Lorkhan.

 

 

Less divine? Whatever gave you that idea? If anything, the Daedra are more divine, having lost nothing to Mundus.

 

Beyond that, however, the discussion about Snow-Throat's stone is ongoing. I don't pretend to be an expert on the subjuct, so i may well be missing some components of the mechanism.

[monganfinn]

 

Less divine? Whatever gave you that idea? If anything, the Daedra are more divine, having lost nothing to Mundus.

Depends on what on calls divine, after all the aedra are worshipped exactly for giving something to Mundus.

The daedra are however naturally closer to the et´ada. So yes, more "otherworldly/foreign" than the aedra.

I agree with you that there shouldn´t be any lore-reason as to why Shor would have needed to not show himself. Bethesda simply didn´t want to show him and the trick with the "mortals would die" is merely taken from ancient religions akin to the mesopotamic religion.

However, have we ever seen a aedra inside their realm?

[Kestrellius]

Speaking of Mantling...

 

Is the Dovahkiin going to mantle Talos, or what? He's doing a lot of the same stuff, after all. And there's the whole "Hjalti's sword" incident. Or is he maybe going to mantle Alduin? Now that would be awesome. Maybe he'll attempt to conquer the Dominion with an army of dragons, and get banished by an Elder Scroll!

 

Also, I've been thinking, and I think the Dragonborn is in fact an Oversoul of various adventurers of his era. I mean, it's been postulated that the different questlines are in large part accomplished by different people, right? So, the reason there's only one player character is that the Aurbis lumped them together, like with Hjalti/Wulftharth/Zurin Arctus.

 

Calling it now: the Psijic Order will rebuild the Numidium, power it with the Eye of Magnus, and use it to defeat the Dominion in TES VIII. Possibly with the Numidium being destroyed in the process, and releasing the Dwemer, kicking off the next arc.

 

...or maybe not. But it would work pretty well.

[notmyhome]

There was a /r/teslore discussion about Mantling Alduin, IIRC. The gist was that it would be possible, but the Dragonborn would have to be pretty out of his mind to do so.

 

Edit: Here it is.

Edited October 15, 2014 by notmyhome

[Riprock]

This is a little melodramatic in my opinion. OP agrees with 'unmaking' the real world. OK, good for you.

[LuseneX]

Well, I don't think the Daedra LET it happen. Several actually straight up die in the event. It's also clear that, while they 'won' in that mankind ceased to be and they are no longer restrained by mortality, the Thalmor don't actually succeed in their goal. It's kind of a mutually assured destruction scenario, that the Thalmor didn't really see comming.

A bit of gravedigging here, but a topic this interesting should not die just yet...

 

So, what has been bothering me was if we really know Men will all die during the Landfall? Do we know none of them survived the destruction of Nirn, for example by escaping in Mothships or in Daedric realms or by some other way? Didn't the Reman emperors build Moon colonies and magical orbital battle stations in the First Era?