CTD on startup but only sometimes

[volnaiskra]

EDIT: Problem was solved, thanks to Wrye Bash and helpful nexusers. But I'd still like help for my loot question. Cheers:

 

(repasted from bottom) I have a question about LOOT. I'm trying to edit the metadata, so that it doesn't keep making the same mistakes every time I sort load order. I've managed to add a plugin into another plugin's "load after" field. But the modified plugin now has an X next to it, which seems to signify that my new user-set rule is being ignored. The official LOOT readme says that it should have a blue tick. It also mentions an "Enable User Changes" field somewhere, which is probably what I need, but I can't for the life of me find "Enable User Changes" anywhere. What am I doing wrong?

 

 

Please help me, I'm going crazy.

 

I'm carefully adding mods to my game one by one, but Skyrim keeps doing a CTD On Startup (CTDOS). But this doesn't appear to be your run of the mill "missing master" issue.

 

The CTDOSs are only occassional. For example, it can CTDOS twice in a row, but the third and fourth time, it will load properly (and the fifth time it will CTDOS again). Or, the game will work fine, then I will install one mod, then it will CTDOS....but when I uninstall that same mod, it continues to CTDOS. I can even use NMM to save a load order file for a load order that worked, and then reload that file 5 minutes later and the game CTDOS. In all cases, if Skyrim gets past the startup screen, the rest of the game works fine.

 

Things I've tried:

-I run LOOT frequently

-I've run TES5EDIT with all mods selected to see if it can find any errors or conflicts. It doesn't.

-I've manually looked through the mod list to look for missing masters or obvious load order errors but can't find any

-I've tried running through SKSE, Steam, and the skyrim EXE - none seem to affect the problem

-I've tried disabling ENB and 3dvision dlls and inis

-I've tried deleting skyrim ini and skyrimprefs ini and letting Steam revalidate and install new ones.

-I've tried closing all background programs, including fraps, aida64 etc.

-I use ENB and SKSE, so the memory fixes should be active in theory (and I have 16gb RAM and 6gb VRAM)

-I've checked appdata\roaming\skyrim\plugins.txt and loadorder.txt for mistakes, and also deleted them so that they're recreated.

 

None of the above fixes the problem.

 

The only thing that seems to so far always work is using NMM to disable ALL plugins. When I do this, it seems to always startup properly no matter how many times I try. But then when I re-enable the plugins, it ALSO works (but only sometimes).

 

So I guess there is some sort of mod incompatibility or load order issue at play, but how the hell do I find it? LOOT, TES5EDIT can't seem to diagnose the problem, and neither can I. :sad:

 

 

This is my current loadorder:

GameMode=Skyrim

Skyrim.esm=1
Update.esm=1
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp=1
SMPC.esp=1
Dawnguard.esm=1
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp=1
SMPC_DG.esp=1
HearthFires.esm=1
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp=1
Falskaar.esm=1
Wyrmstooth.esp=1
SMPC_HF.esp=1
Dragonborn.esm=1
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp=1
ApachiiHairMales.esm=1
ApachiiHair.esm=1
ApachiiHairFemales.esm=1
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm=1
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm=1
moonpath.esm=1
RSkyrimChildren.esm=1
SMPC_DB.esp=1
HighResTexturePack01.esp=1
HighResTexturePack02.esp=1
HighResTexturePack03.esp=1
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp=1
No More Glowing Edges.esp=1
Ket_3DLoadscreens.esp=1
CoT-WeatherPatch.esp=1
Rainbows.esp=1
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp=1
CombatDramaOverhaul.esp=1
AMatterOfTime.esp=1
RSChildren - Complete.esp=1
CoT-WeatherPatch_DB.esp=1
SkyUI.esp=1
CoT-WeatherPatch_NL2.esp=1
83Willows_101BUGS_V4_LowRes.esp=1
CoT-WeatherPatch_Snow-10.esp=1
DD_Dawnguard Additions.esp=1
dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp=1
ImportantInformationOverhaul.esp=1
TimingIsEverything.esp=1
Dragon Stalking Fix.esp=1
GreenWaterFix_v2withDawnguard.esp=1
FloraRespawnFix.esp=1
AchieveThat.esp=1
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp=1
ELFX - Exteriors.esp=1
ELFX - Dawnguard.esp=1
ELFX - Dragonborn.esp=1
FireAndIceOverhaul.esp=1
Grass On Steroids.esp=1
Patch - Falskaar - RS kids.esp=1
Immersive NPC in the dark.esp=1
iHUD.esp=1
Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp=1
WetandCold.esp=1
WetandCold - Ashes.esp=1
Patch - Wyrm - RS kids.esp=1
NonEssentialChildren.esp=1
RaceMenuPlugin.esp=1
DD_Dragonborn Additions.esp=1
RaceMenu.esp=1
RSChildren_PatchNEC.esp=1
RSChildren_PatchUSKP.esp=1
Thieves Guild Requirements.esp=1
SkyRe_Main.esp=1
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp=1
3DNPC.esp=1
Prometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp=1
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp=1
1nivWICCloaks.esp=1
SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp=1
FCO - Follower Commentary Overhaul.esp=1
NPC_Overhaul_V_1_.esp=1
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp=1
Patch - Interesting NPCs - RS kids.esp=1
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.esp=1
SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp=1
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.esp=1
RealisticWaterTwo.esp=1
ELFXEnhancer.esp=1
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp=1
BloodmoonRising.esp=1
Destructible_bottles.esp=1
RND_USKP-Patch.esp=1
Disease Descriptions_RND Compatibile.esp=1
RealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.esp=1
RealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.esp=1
Birdsofskyrim.esp=1
DawnofWindhelm.esp=1
SkyRe_EncounterZones.esp=1
BirdsHFclean.esp=1
Further Dark Dungeons for ENB.esp=1
Inconsequential NPCs.esp=1
DawnofRiften.esp=1
Patch - Inconsequential NPCs - RS kids.esp=1
RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp=1
RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp=1
RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp=1
Run For Your Lives.esp=1
SkyRe_Survivalism.esp=1
SMIM-Merged-All.esp=1
moonpath_questdata.esp=1
Immersive Patrols II.esp=1
WaterFromWellsDragonbornRND.esp=1
elvenwood.esp=1
VendorSaleDelay-Gone.esp=1
ELFX - Moonpath.esp=1
When Vampires Attack.esp=1
WhiterunAlivePiano.esp=1
Jaggarsfeld.esp=1
SkyRe_StandingStones.esp=1
Chesko_Frostfall.esp=1
CCO_Frostfall_Patch.esp=1
RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp=1
SkyRe_Races.esp=1
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.esp=1
Drinking Fountains of Skyrim.esp=1
SkyRe_EnemyAI.esp=1
CompanionArissa.esp=1
Prometheus_BeastSkeletons.esp=1
RND_DrinkingFountains-Patch.esp=1
Shortcuts.esp=1
_clumod.esp=1
SC_NobleDresses.esp=1
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp=1
Equipping Overhaul.esp=1
SkyRe_Combat.esp=1
Prometheus_NSUTR Falskaar Dock.esp=1
ESFCompanions.esp=1
WolfFollower.esp=1
Chesko_Step418_SN.esp=1
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp=1

[gromulos]

I noticed that you are not using Wrye Bash and I am almost positive that is your problem. LOOT is a great program but it is not 100 %. Try running wrye bash and if you see any check marks that are not green, then those files are your problems, good luck :smile:

 

When ever i install mods and start a new game i do it in this order below:

 

1) install every mod I am going to use

2) run loot

3) run wrye bash and correct load order

4) run TES5EDIT and verify load order

 

one other thing, use the bashed patch from Wrye Bash as wrye bash will automatically make it instead of the merged patch from TES5EDIT. DO NOT USE BOTH PATCHES!

Edited September 11, 2014 by gromulos

[Nyquist]

Or he might be hitting the 3.1 gb limit. Skyrim performance monitormight help

[volnaiskra]

I noticed that you are not using Wrye Bash and I am almost positive that is your problem. LOOT is a great program but it is not 100 %. Try running wrye bash and if you see any check marks that are not green, then those files are your problems, good luck :smile:

 

When ever i install mods and start a new game i do it in this order below:

 

1) install every mod I am going to use

2) run loot

3) run wrye bash and correct load order

4) run TES5EDIT and verify load order

 

one other thing, use the bashed patch from Wrye Bash as wrye bash will automatically make it instead of the merged patch from TES5EDIT. DO NOT USE BOTH PATCHES!

 

 

Are you saying I should use Wrye Bash to make a bashed patch, or only to check my load order?

 

Anyway, I ran Wrye Bash, and there were a handful of orange checkboxes. I gather this means that their masters aren't in their preffered order. I manually reordered them as best I could (btw is there an automatic way to reorder them to get rid of the orange checkboxes?). But there are a few that are impossible to resolve, (eg. because one wants USKP.esp to be after the DLCs, but another wants the DLCs to be after USKP.esp, etc.).

 

So I still have a few orange boxes, and I still get a CTDOS. I also tried making a bashed patch (I right-clicked on Bashed Patch, 0.esp and selected rebuild....is there any more to it than that?), but I still got a CTDOS.

 

 

 

UPDATE: It turns out that I could eliminate all orange boxes by uninstalling just one mod and a few patches. Now I have green checkboxes all the way, and the game has loaded successfully 4 times in a row. Fingers crossed! But if I ever want to reinstall those mods (they are RSChildren and its many patches, and the SMPC patch for Hearthfires), is there anything I can do to get them working?

[Saizetsu]

only use wyre bash to check the load order.

 

are you using the skse 1.7.,1 build?

 

and the next thing I would recommend is checking for compatibility patches and then try disabling all mods and running it at each mod startup.

[NewThalos]

only use wyre bash to check the load order.

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

Always, always, always, make a bashed patch. Always. And place it at the end of your load order. Think of bashed patches as a way of creating a custom compatibility patch for your entire load order that merges plugins, fixes leveled lists, and so much more. Repeat, always make a bashed patch every time you install or uninstall a mod from your load order.

 

Addendum

 

Ever wonder why LOOT assigns bash tags to your load order? It's so your bashed PATCH knows how to properly patch everything together. Essential.

Edited September 12, 2014 by SkyrimCliff

[volnaiskra]

only use wyre bash to check the load order.

 

are you using the skse 1.7.,1 build?

 

and the next thing I would recommend is checking for compatibility patches and then try disabling all mods and running it at each mod startup.

Yes, 1.7.1.

 

Ironically, compatibility patches seem to be the main culprit of the CTDOS. Namely, the various patches for RS Children, which together require an impossible load order combination of their masters (see post #4).

 

@SkyrimCliff: A few questions about bashed patches.

 

1. Should I include everything in the bashed patch? I thought it was only for mods that change levelled lists

2. Do I disable any mods after making a bashed patch, or do I still run all the ESPs alongside the bashed ESP?

3. What's the best procedure for making a bashed patch - do I just click "rebuild patch" and I'm done? Or should I change some settings?

4. Will the batch patch fix my orange-checkbox problem that I outlined in post #4 above?

 

Also, should I continue using LOOT? If so, is there a way to stop it from making the same mistakes each time?

[NewThalos]

 

@SkyrimCliff: A few questions about bashed patches.

 

1. Should I include everything in the bashed patch? I thought it was only for mods that change levelled lists

2. Do I disable any mods after making a bashed patch, or do I still run all the ESPs alongside the bashed ESP?

3. What's the best procedure for making a bashed patch - do I just click "rebuild patch" and I'm done? Or should I change some settings?

4. Will the batch patch fix my orange-checkbox problem that I outlined in post #4 above?

 

Also, should I continue using LOOT? If so, is there a way to stop it from making the same mistakes each time?

 

1) Yes and no. The only type of mod that you should not add to the bashed patch would be dynamic mods and similar patchers such as ReProccer, SUM and ASIS being the most commonly seen, because ReProccer and ASIS are something you want to add the completed bashed patch to, not the other way around. Other than that, yes, absolutely, you need that bashed patch to know everything that you have loaded, which is how bashed tags work in the first place, (in relation to other mods).

 

2) The only mods you will disable would be those dynamic patchers such as what I list above, everything else you want enabled. Also, remember to put those dynamics below the soon-to-be bashed patch slot. Once the bashed patch is done, it will automatically disable whatever it merged and added into the bashed patch itself for you. When the bashed patch is done, assuming you had dynamic patches next in the queue after the bashed patch, then you would at that juncture, run the .jar file of each dynamic, aka, ASIS, and ReProccer, usually in that order.

 

3) I make my load order look like this in my mod manager (I use Mod Organizer)

 

-Core mods

-Other Mods

-bashed patch

-ASIS

ReProccer

 

Make sure all of your plugins, etc, are all turned on... EXCEPT... all of the dynamics you place BELOW the bashed in your load order. And if you even have a bashed patch slot, thats because you have an existing bashed patch, and thats fine, because the new one will just overwrite the old, or if you're in MO, it will place it into your overwrite folder, and you just need to drag the new patch over the old one.

 

Then I open up Wrye Bash... and I double check to see if my current bashed patch slot is below my mods, but above my dynamics... and then I make sure everything above the bashed is enabled, and below it is disabled.. (I'll throw up a picture later if you're still confused). And then I right click on the bashed patch slot, and click "Rebuild Patch". Doing so brings you to this menu:

 

 

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn91/zhalls/Skyrim%20Troubleshooting/Wrye%20Bash/rebuildpatchmenu.jpg

 

 

 

Please take note of everything checked (and not checked for that matter) on the left hand side of the menu, and notice how everything is checked on the right hand side too, which Wrye Bash is indicating to you that these mods should be merged into the bashed patch because a) they can, and b) they should in order to reduce plugins and increase stability.

 

Click Rebuild Patch at the bottom when ready to proceed. It will do its thing, and show you a menu, just click okay to close that window, and from here.... you're done. Just exit Wrye Bash

 

4) Sometimes a game will play just fine with a few oranges, but for obvious reasons, you want to fix all of them as best you can, even if it means disabling certain mods in order to obtain a perfect load order. The bashed patch itself, will not exactly fix orange boxes, but I suppose its possible it could merge one that is in conflict with itself, thus disabling it and allowing other mods to turn green... meh, Ask gromulus, he probably is more familiar with Wrye Bash errors than I am.

 

 

5) You asked if you should continue using LOOT... Yes and no. Once your bashed patch is made, and the game is running great, and you have no problems-- you're not supposed to touch anything. You dont run LOOT, you don't make more bashed patches, you just play the game.

 

but.. if you do add a new mod, or remove an existing mod from your load order, then you should re-run LOOT, and then re-create a new bashed patch, and if you use dynamic patchers, you should re-run those too, overwriting both the old bashed patches and the SkyReProc Patches, respectively.

Edited September 13, 2014 by SkyrimCliff

[volnaiskra]

I can't thank you guys enough. You've helped me immensely, and saved my sanity. Skyrim is much more stable now that I'm getting all green checkboxes in wryebash. I've had a couple of CTDOS still, but I was able to isolate those to a specific mod that was broken and causing CTDOS for many people (all that mod did was add more salt piles!)

 

I've heavily modded all Bethesda games since Oblivion, and I never thought Wrye Bash sounded like something I needed. But I now see that it's indispensable.

 

 

 

I have a quesiton about LOOT. I'm trying to edit the metadata, so that it doesn't keep making the same mistakes every time I sort load order. I've managed to add a plugin into another plugin's "load after" field. But the modified plugin now has an X next to it, which seems to signify that my new user-set rule is being ignored. The official LOOT readme says that it should have a blue tick. It also mentions an "Enable User Changes" field somewhere, which is probably what I need, but I can't for the life of me find "Enable User Changes" anywhere. What am I doing wrong?

[gromulos]

I'm not sure about what you're doing with LOOT but I am glad that the steps i showed you worked. As far as that RSchildren mod, seems to me if you want to use it then you're pretty much going to be VERY limited on what other mods you can use, personally I would ditch it.