Is America becoming Socialist ?

[JimboUK]

You know, I really hope that their "Great Repeal Bill" will produce positive results. The road they outlined is something I can approve wholeheartedly... but I will only applaud them when their plan comes to fruition. Simon Davies from Privacy International said: "It is one thing for a government to repeal the most repugnant initiatives of its predecessors, and quite another to show sensitivity and restraint when future opportunities become available for new surveillance measures. Put simply, it is easy to condemn what has gone before, but it is infinitely harder for any government to resist the temptation to introduce new and even more intrusive initiatives." Anyway, I wish them good luck. They're gonna need it (terrorist threats and Bin Laden videos are known to pop up and disrupt pro-privacy efforts at the worst time).

 

They have gone further, as far as removing stop and search from the police. As for the terrorist threat Cameron has already demonstrated what he thinks of that by making ministers use public transport, reducing his own security so far that he now walks through Londons streets to go to and from various places rather than hiding in an armoured limo.

 

 

Health Care is worth the extra taxes. Heck, taxes should be like this:

 

If a person is rich, their taxes goes up and if they are poor, the taxes goes down. Enough so that the poor person doesn't get charged much and lives NORMALLY while the rich man gets charged a lot because he has enough money to pay for all that and still live well.

 

Socialism when it comes to Health Care is VERY GOOD.

 

If you tax the rich too much they take their tax payments elsewhere along with the jobs they create and you end up with nothing. Just look at the UK, the private sector stagnated under Labour and they had to create employment in the public sector to keep people in work, the result is a massive debt.

[DarkZerker]

A NEW UPDATE.

 

Socialism is one of the greatest ideas of running a country, don't get me wrong. Oh and Michael Moore actually DOES research unlike Fox News who spouts utter BS to those SOB's that enjoy that kind of BS.

 

But what sucks about Socialism is if the government fails at using tax money correctly, then we are screwed. That's the problem with America being a socialist, the politicians are the most corrupt people I've ever seen.

[Ghogiel]

corrupt? what like the NHS? all the higher ups and consultants giving themselves bonuses. WTF does anyone body need a 400k bonus for?

 

they are all hitting the bonus button. And as been pointed out... they can't even run it efficiently..buying a screw for 300quid.. bonuses. pfft.

 

Sort it out

[ginnyfizz]

It works because it isn't run by the government, it's not been ruined by socialists and their control freakery.

say what now?

 

care to elaborate?

 

Whereas the system in the UK is nominally free at the point of delivery and totally run by the state, this is not the case in Germany, as far as I can see. I understand that they have public health insurance, which is for all salaried workers earning under 50,000 Euros per annum. It is pay as you go and the public health insurance covers rather basic treatments, ie "economically viable, sufficient, necessary and meaningful services". And it is based on a percentage of salary, depending on which public health insurance company you are with, with the employer making a contribution.

 

And then there is private insurance for the better off, the self employed and public officers.

 

So the problems that may be looming are that with an ageing population, and the fact that the public health insurance that covers 85% of people does not factor in any element of an individuals increasing health costs due to age or existing conditions,that the public system will run into deficit or result in higher premiums for those still working. Treatments are decided by the state which has de facto resulted in decreasing coverage, and the costs on individuals have increased.

 

So the system is not run by the state but the treatments available are controlled by it. Thus the system in Germany is rather far from being universal healthcare as far as I can see.

 

Ghogiel, although consultants in the NHS have received bonuses this is because of a scheme that was introduced when the NHS was born. Check out this article;

 

NHS Consultants face bonus crackdown

 

And the new government is swinging the axe at them.

 

Hehe...I think you just effectively agreed that universal healthcare doesn't work...

[Aurielius]

A NEW UPDATE.

 

Socialism is one of the greatest ideas of running a country, don't get me wrong. Oh and Michael Moore actually DOES research unlike Fox News who spouts utter BS to those SOB's that enjoy that kind of BS.

 

But what sucks about Socialism is if the government fails at using tax money correctly, then we are screwed. That's the problem with America being a socialist, the politicians are the most corrupt people I've ever seen.

It's difficult to debate with someone who has drunk the liberal kool aid, but I'll try anyway. You seem to view the spectrum of political ideologies in stark black and white. Why not present working viable examples of socialist states that are economically self sustaining, instead of saying Conservatives bad... Socialists good. Moore is as biased as those that he attempts to skewer, so kindly not present him as some paragon of journalistic virtue, he reeks of yellow journalism. Do you have something in particular about the concept of business that is inherently evil, or should all enterprise by run by the government ? Do a small check on how the left loves pork barrel government, their earmarks outweigh the right by 14 to 1.

As for the intent of the writers of the constitution, it would be helpful to actually read the document instead of viewing as some form of transitory document that does not fit into your view of the world. It is an exceedingly well balanced conceptual model of balancing the intrusion of the government into the privacy of the people with the necessity of governing them by consent, written by men who had first had knowledge of the abusive powers of the state. Just out of curiosity was there one framer of the Constitution that you find ideologically acceptable?

[evilneko]

A NEW UPDATE.

 

Socialism is one of the greatest ideas of running a country, don't get me wrong. Oh and Michael Moore actually DOES research unlike Fox News who spouts utter BS to those SOB's that enjoy that kind of BS.

 

But what sucks about Socialism is if the government fails at using tax money correctly, then we are screwed. That's the problem with America being a socialist, the politicians are the most corrupt people I've ever seen.

 

 

Dude. Michael Moore is the left's Glenn Beck. Dropping his name does not help your case.

[superdeluxe]

Michael Moore is a massive chump.

 

If anything I'd say the way the US imprisons people and the way banks shake it's becoming more of a police state then a socialist nation.

[Ghogiel]

 

So the system is not run by the state but the treatments available are controlled by it. Thus the system in Germany is rather far from being universal healthcare as far as I can see.

 

well having lived in germany for a number of years....and having used the public health care system there, and knowing that it is in fact basically run by the governments ministry of health, So the system is in fact run and funded by the state. Where are you getting that it isn't run by the state I don't know.. you basically just walk into any GPs office and they see you, treat you well, do all kinds of tests, have the best gear, are well staffed, granted you have to pay a 10er, this 10er covers you for 3 months, so all my return visits to the doctor and follow up treatment are paid in that time.

 

when you go in, you fill out a form, you either have insurance or not. when you say the people in germay have a public insurance scheme, that's like what the UK has, it's called national insurance here.

 

as i understand it, the GP then gets reimbursed/paid by some officiating body. < either the state or a private insurance scheme.

 

You can have state. or you can go private.

 

point is the system works. and it is state. And the health care is great. best I ever had.

 

 

 

Hehe...I think you just effectively agreed that universal healthcare doesn't work...

I think i just effectively pointed out that corruption and inefficient bureaucracies are likely to blame for failing in a public health care system... just about anywhere. If i was marxist I would start pointing out that eliminating those 2 things are primary goals in communist theory. Social schemes are fubar when people in the public sector are getting 6figure salaries and golden hand shakes worth more than an average person will earn in half a life time.

 

you are effectively not explaining how the universal health care system is working in Germany. you seem to be missing a vital bit of info, How is their public system not state run and paid for again?

 

I believe its called TAX

 

as for the NHS, needs Reform. I wouldn't want to do away with it.

[ginnyfizz]

As I understand it,the German government sets the public insurance premium rates, but the insurance itself comes through and is administered by companies. YOU have missed one of my important points - that actually the German system is beginning to run into PRECISELY the same problems as the British NHS - ageing population, meaning a greater tax burden on those of working age and the allowable treatments under the public scheme being set by the government, which has de facto resulted in a diminution of service. The GP's will only be reimbursed for treatments that are (here we go again...) "economically viable, sufficient, necessary and meaningful services".

 

Actually have you read ANY of my post? In your rush to try and score points, it seems not. The German public scheme is funded by insurance contributions from individuals, topped up by their employers. You also seem to have a thing about corruption in the NHS, for Lord knows what reason. The problem is not so much corruption - your example of the consultants and their bonuses was not an example of corruption as the bonuses were legal,although outrageous - but inefficiency (as witnessed by the example of the £300 screw.) What the NHS could do with is buyers from the private sector who know how to drive a hard bargain.

 

Aaaand back to topic...this is what the USA has to look forward to, should they be rash enough to give Obama another term. Somehow I doubt it, and America will not become Socialist.

[evilneko]

That isn't at all what the US has to look forward to. ObamaCare is not social medicine.

 

It would have been far more rash to elect McCain. And if Palin runs in 2012, Obama's pretty much guaranteed a second term.