Enhanched Interrogation vs. Torture?

[kvnchrist]

There was a saying that I loved that sums up all of this. "War doesn't decide who's right but who is left."

 

That being said, Man will never give up his greatest pass time sport of the demonization of others. It gives us the ability to punish others for not being our version of us. What's truly ironic is that it's our version of them who gives us the ability to do these things and long after, we justify our actions by the situation we found ourselves in, instead of just being honest and saying we were, we are and we shall always be capable of what we are capable of.

 

Hunanity, what a wondersious invention man has contrived to uplift his spirit beyond reality. What a selfrightous word and so often a meaningly and irrelivant phrase. We should replace it for the word we attribute to the care of our fellow animals, that of the Humane, since we so often treat our animals better than those we call our fellow man.

[JimboUK]

"Enhanced Interrogation" isn't enough. I think there needs to be harsher methods of "interrogation" if it's a matter of national security. When a human attacks/is planning to attack, sabotage or disrupt the efforts of humanity,

his government or the government of a said nation, he is no longer a human and thus, should not be treated as one - he or she should be stripped of his/her rights and then be dealt with as the authorities see fit, in order to

extract whatever information necessary to prevent an act of terrorism. I will just say it how it is... If they must torture someone in order to protect a people, then I would accept that as the government doing their duty.

 

My opinion.

 

If you're trying to protect people you need facts and you don't get them by torturing people, all you get is what they think you want to hear. As an intelligence gathering tool torture isn't very good at all, it's better to try and bring them over to your way of thinking.

[kvnchrist]

 

"Enhanced Interrogation" isn't enough. I think there needs to be harsher methods of "interrogation" if it's a matter of national security. When a human attacks/is planning to attack, sabotage or disrupt the efforts of humanity,

his government or the government of a said nation, he is no longer a human and thus, should not be treated as one - he or she should be stripped of his/her rights and then be dealt with as the authorities see fit, in order to

extract whatever information necessary to prevent an act of terrorism. I will just say it how it is... If they must torture someone in order to protect a people, then I would accept that as the government doing their duty.

 

My opinion.

 

If you're trying to protect people you need facts and you don't get them by torturing people, all you get is what they think you want to hear. As an intelligence gathering tool torture isn't very good at all, it's better to try and bring them over to your way of thinking.

 

Dude the reason that they hate us is because we've been trying to replace thei culture with our own for so very long time. We started all this crap by carving up their world to fit our own at the end of WWI. We've replaced popular people with cronies that have kept ther people subjecated and the oil spiket running.

 

We tried the same thing in our Indian schools and look at where that's lead us.

 

In the middle East we stoked the fire and when it errupted, during the Arab Spring we stepped aside and did nothing, which was fine until it came to Syria. Then, that which we failed to do in both Syria and Iran boiled over and completed the perfect storm of Isis. If we had not invaded Iran, I think everything would have corrected itself over there and we would now be on a better footing with those countries.

[HeyYou]

We didn't invade Iran. We invaded Iraq, and set the stage for the whole mess we have today.

 

We turned on our allies, (mubarak) and supported his opposition. His opposition then turned to the muslim brotherhood, that took over the country. Exactly what we DIDN'T want.

 

We overthru Saddam, and civil war/sectarian violence erupted in spades.

 

We supported the rebels in Syria...... and look how that has turned out.....

 

And what's really funny, the US is pretty much responsible for Al Queda getting their start, as WE are the ones that financed, trained, and armed them, when they were the rebels fighting against the soviets in afghanistan.

 

When it comes to nation building, our record is absolutely terrible. We suck at it. We should learn from that, and STOP TRYING TO DO IT to people we have zero understanding of. Our politicians seem to think that everyone thinks like americans do, and want their freedoms. That is simply not the case. The culture in the ME is so radically different from ours, that the mind boggles wondering how are politicians can so dramatically mis-read an entire people.....

[Aurielius]

@Kvnchrist

 

I think that the concept that we (the US) carved up the world is in error...I'll direct you to the Treaty of Versailles and the responsible parties Great Britain and France. They dissected the middle east to suit their colonial ambitions ignoring the ethic and nationalist pressures that helped implode the Ottoman Empire. We are guilty of many misguided power plays but the inception of this particular mess can be laid directly at Lloyd George's and Georges Clemenceau's door. It should be also pointed out that Hey You's assessment of our nation building expertise is spot on, which didn't ameliorate the tempest either.

[kvnchrist]

@Kvnchrist

 

I think that the concept that we (the US) carved up the world is in error...I'll direct you to the Treaty of Versailles and the responsible parties Great Britain and France. They dissected the middle east to suit their colonial ambitions ignoring the ethic and nationalist pressures that helped implode the Ottoman Empire. We are guilty of many misguided power plays but the inception of this particular mess can be laid directly at Lloyd George's and Georges Clemenceau's door. It should be also pointed out that Hey You's assessment of our nation building expertise is spot on, which didn't ameliorate the tempest either.

I use the term we, as the West in general. Just because America has been singled out doesn't mean the rest of the Western world is not on their s-list. It just means we are the biggest fly in their ontment. I thank you for letting me clearify that.

[kvnchrist]

We didn't invade Iran. We invaded Iraq, and set the stage for the whole mess we have today.

 

We turned on our allies, (mubarak) and supported his opposition. His opposition then turned to the muslim brotherhood, that took over the country. Exactly what we DIDN'T want.

 

We overthru Saddam, and civil war/sectarian violence erupted in spades.

 

We supported the rebels in Syria...... and look how that has turned out.....

 

And what's really funny, the US is pretty much responsible for Al Queda getting their start, as WE are the ones that financed, trained, and armed them, when they were the rebels fighting against the soviets in afghanistan.

 

When it comes to nation building, our record is absolutely terrible. We suck at it. We should learn from that, and STOP TRYING TO DO IT to people we have zero understanding of. Our politicians seem to think that everyone thinks like americans do, and want their freedoms. That is simply not the case. The culture in the ME is so radically different from ours, that the mind boggles wondering how are politicians can so dramatically mis-read an entire people.....

 

Thank you for pointing out my mistake. Though invading Iran could very well be in out future. People talk about Aramgedon, if it ever happens that might just be the powderkeg that sets it off.

 

I agree totally with you about all of this. We, as Americans have done so well on building our own country, with so many people rushing to contribute to our voting process because we do so love our politicans. WTF over!

 

We have the keystone cops protecting our streets and The Marx brothers running our country. What

[edgeburner]

All nations have done things that they are ashamed of. Whether these enhanced interrogation/torture techniques are effective/right or wrong is debatable. The fact the all nations are far from perfect is not.

I have a few 'issues' with the report itself:

1 - The strictly partisan nature of it. No Republican participation whatsoever. Obama care legislative techniques all over again?

2 - The timing of it. Why now? I believe it is safe to say the the context/mindset is much different now than it was 10/12 years ago....fresh on the heels of the 9/11 attacks. Not to mention the fact the CIA interrogation techniques have been investigated 30 times during the Bush and Obama administrations.

3 - The fact that not one single member of the that CIA department was interviewed during the creation of this report.

4 - The whole moral equivalency thing.....Many of the same people who created this report support drone-strikes that kill thousand of innocents

5 - The fact that this will endanger the American lives and those of our allies....civilian and military.

The whole think reeks too me. Much to 'selective' in its one sided nature.

I just watched and excerpt from an interview between a TV reporter and a former CIA executive, The interviewer asked the former CIA executive how he would feel if such interrogation techniques we used on his own family members. His response..."I they had just murdered 4,000 American people, it would pad the effect"

Edited December 10, 2014 by edgeburner

[HeyYou]

The republicans on the intelligence committee CHOSE not to participate. They already knew what the conclusions were going to be.

 

Timing? That one is a real puzzler.... why release it at all? It isn't going to help anything, all it is going to do is embarrass us as a nation. Again. Do we really need to air our dirty laundry in the public square?

 

The various intelligence agencies that were actually doing the deeds, are still insisting that they actually got some good intel from these methods. But then, I wouldn't expect them to say anything else. The report was based on documents FROM the various agencies.

 

Drone strikes vs. torture....... Hhhmm..... It's a war. People die. If there are civilians near the target, good chance they are going to die as well. If your enemy tends to hide among civilian populations, civilians are going to die. Civilian casualties didn't seem to be an issue during wartime until recently...... we bombed entire cities, killing civilians SPECIFICALLY in the past. No one went up for war crimes for those acts....... Torture is pretty much universally agreed on to be morally wrong. Its even outlined in the Geneva Convention for the treatment of prisoners of war.

 

I don't think the terrorists really need any more motivation to want to kill americans........ May make a nice recruiting tool though.

[Aurielius]

Timing? If you wanted to change the current dialogue over domestic issues why not go back to the old play book?....blame Bush. What an exemplary CIC, to salvage his political hide he would gladly throw the services under the bus. We knew about the Gitmo interrogations before this and to date we water boarded three individuals....at least according to ex CIA Chief Hayden. Limited quantity of incidents still does not mean that I approve of past Enhanced Interrogations but some perspective on how wide spread it was is in order.