Enhanched Interrogation vs. Torture?

[edgeburner]

Actually. all but one republican senator voted to approve the probe at first (in 2009) but then withdrew their support when it became apparent that the report was little more than a political witch hunt aimed at the Bush administration and the CIA (in their opinion). Not to mention the fact that the bi-partisan senate intel committee was briefed on many occasions that EIT's were being used by the CIA for intel gathering. Remember also EIT's were legal under US law until 2005 (?).

I still don't see how you can you possibly release such a report without interviewing even ONE single member of the accused organization? To rely strictly on reports with no chance of rebuttal? It utterly reeks of partisanship. At the very least..amateurism,

Drone strikes are being used in nations other than Afghanistan and Iraq....Nations were are not "officially" at war in (such as Yemen) Personally, I agree that we are at war with Islamic extremist around the globe.....many dems (including Obama) don't quite see it that way. Gotta admit though, it comical to watch WHPS Josh Earnst stumble and bumble about when asked about the equivalency. :smile:

 

Timing? If you wanted to change the current dialogue over domestic issues why not go back to the old play book?....blame Bush. What an exemplary CIC, to salvage his political hide he would gladly throw the services under the bus. We knew about the Gitmo interrogations before this and to date we water boarded three individuals....at least according to ex CIA Chief Hayden. Limited quantity of incidents still does not mean that I approve of past Enhanced Interrogations but some perspective on how wide spread it was is in order.

Never too late to Blame it on Bush!! It was also a tiny minority of interrogators who went beyond the EIT' standards set forth by the DOJ. Apparently, the report doesn't delve into these things.....Not surprised. Perspective can become a valuable tool for enhancing agenda.

Edited December 11, 2014 by edgeburner

[HeyYou]

What's 'biased' about basing an evaluation on official reports? How would talking to the folks that wrote the reports make any difference at all? Are the people that wrote them now going to change their tune? Argue that the OFFICIAL report 'isn't accurate'??? Do you think as those reports get bumped up the food chain, that the folks that wrote them go with them? (if so, you have no clue how chain of command works.)

Edited December 11, 2014 by HeyYou

[edgeburner]

We don't know who filed those reports? how many individual filed those reports? ect... and we cannot corroborate them with testimony because there is none. I think that makes a HUGE difference. Not to mention the fact that is basically standard procedure to interview the personnel involved. How do we know the reports released weren't done so selectively?

When you release a report of this kind of magnitude, you better have done a thorough job. Pouring over thousands of reports and doing basically nothing else is far from through.

Riddle me this....Why not call an investigative hearing in the senate? Make those who accused stand by their accusations on the witness stand....give the accused a chance to defend themselves? I mean...since they didn't do so in their report. At the very least, the magnitude of this report warrants such a hearing. I'm sure this can be done in a manner which won't compromise national security.

They put it out there and it's time to man the hell up.

Are the senate dems who compiled this report afraid of something...besides the fact the they knew these tactics were being used from the git-go, were briefed on a regular basis and did nothing to stop them? As a matter of fact, some on the select committee (from both parties) accused the CIA of not doing enough to gather intel post 9/11. On the house side, Pelosi denies being briefed when there is rock-solid evidence to the contrary.

Time and context...

The vast majority of folks in the CIA are good, dedicated people, and should not be tainted by such partisan "kiil a fly with a shotgun" nonsense.

[JimboUK]

 

 

"Enhanced Interrogation" isn't enough. I think there needs to be harsher methods of "interrogation" if it's a matter of national security. When a human attacks/is planning to attack, sabotage or disrupt the efforts of humanity,

his government or the government of a said nation, he is no longer a human and thus, should not be treated as one - he or she should be stripped of his/her rights and then be dealt with as the authorities see fit, in order to

extract whatever information necessary to prevent an act of terrorism. I will just say it how it is... If they must torture someone in order to protect a people, then I would accept that as the government doing their duty.

 

My opinion.

 

If you're trying to protect people you need facts and you don't get them by torturing people, all you get is what they think you want to hear. As an intelligence gathering tool torture isn't very good at all, it's better to try and bring them over to your way of thinking.

 

Dude the reason that they hate us is because we've been trying to replace thei culture with our own for so very long time. We started all this crap by carving up their world to fit our own at the end of WWI. We've replaced popular people with cronies that have kept ther people subjecated and the oil spiket running.

 

We tried the same thing in our Indian schools and look at where that's lead us.

 

In the middle East we stoked the fire and when it errupted, during the Arab Spring we stepped aside and did nothing, which was fine until it came to Syria. Then, that which we failed to do in both Syria and Iran boiled over and completed the perfect storm of Isis. If we had not invaded Iran, I think everything would have corrected itself over there and we would now be on a better footing with those countries.

 

 

I'm well aware of the history and don't see what it has to do with my post, torture is a poor intelligence gathering tool for reasons already given, in this case it's also been counter productive, countries will be far less likely to send suspects to the US because of the danger of mistreatment by the CIA and their MI6 pals.

[Aurielius]

Sigh...anyone who has taken SERE training which is designed to train an individual to endure harsh interrogation and or torture will confirm that.... right after physically painful confinement and sleep deprivation, water boarding is the third tier of escalation in the interrogation exercise. Even knowing that they are not going to really kill you, doesn't stop the drowning reflex. If we consider those methods a form of torture that requires preparation in order to survive, then how is not torture when we do it?

 

Aside from definitions, practicability, actionable intelligence there is a simple moral and ethical issue..torture is antithetical to our oft proudly proclaimed American values.

[kvnchrist]

What's torture is to see the Dems falling all over themselves to make the public aware of a report they themselves sanctioned and then conveniently left out testimony of those who were actually there and accountable for the operation, because they lost their asses in an election and wanted to distract the public by releasing the report. They weren't even talking about it until now and now they let it fly and place everybody, everywhere in jeopardy all because of sour grapes.

 

This is about as childish as it gets and they all know that they will be protected in that bubble we call Washington and the rest of us are on our own.

[HeyYou]

The investigation has been going on for several years. The mid term elections have little or nothing to do with it.

[kvnchrist]

The investigation has been going on for several years. The mid term elections have little or nothing to do with it.

Yes the investigations have been going on for years. It also had it's finds 2 months ago in October and they didn't release it until after the midterms. After the nation rejected the Dems.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/cia-senate-spying-sergeant-at-arms_n_6031744.html

 

Look at the time stamp on that article and that was posted after the Senate investigation ended. Why not release them before the midterns, since the investigation had concluded? They didn't want to rock the boat, just as President Obama waited till after the Midterms to do his immigration thing.

 

This whole episode reeks to high heaven and I think the Dems will be paying for this for a very long time.

[Vagrant0]

 

The investigation has been going on for several years. The mid term elections have little or nothing to do with it.

Yes the investigations have been going on for years. It also had it's finds 2 months ago in October and they didn't release it until after the midterms. After the nation rejected the Dems.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/cia-senate-spying-sergeant-at-arms_n_6031744.html

 

Look at the time stamp on that article and that was posted after the Senate investigation ended. Why not release them before the midterns, since the investigation had concluded? They didn't want to rock the boat, just as President Obama waited till after the Midterms to do his immigration thing.

 

This whole episode reeks to high heaven and I think the Dems will be paying for this for a very long time.

 

Not sure how you're surprised by this... Everything, literally everything, that politicians do these days is little more than a theatrical dance intended to get them votes. Good intentions turn to broken policies over the course of several drafts just as delicious food is turned into s#*! as it passes through your digestive tract. Most information is withheld or delayed until it can be used as a political tool for improving polls or just distracting people from other information that was just released. And it's kinda always been this way. And thanks to the fact that so many issues have lingered on as political tools, the dance has become more elaborate and even the villains can look like saints.

[HeyYou]

The only way I see the dems winning much of anything come 2016, is if the republicans REALLY screw the pooch, or, run another idiot for president. They have an opportunity here, wonder if they can come together enough to actually DO anything with it.