The chinese government is stupid

[Harbringe]

Its kinda hard to talk about China's one child policy and the reasons they instituted it (overpopulation) and not mention food , if they had always had enough food there would be no need for a one child policy in order to deal with overpopulation.Policies like that don't spring out of a vacuum ,they come into being for a reason and food directly relates to overpopulation and the reasons China implemented a one child policy.Now its a matter of dealing with the consequences.

 

I was just responding to Surenas post on resources and how there are factors that influence how much resources (food) we have.Storage ,transportation and our own consumptive habits being the three biggest.

 

@ Burnagirl : excellent sorrce material

 

@Ethre : pretty much what I was trying to impart ,you just said it so much better

[Maharg67]

What needs to be pointed out here is the nature of the Chinese Communist Government with its various political factions, public services and other influences like that of the Red Army (now apparently dampened). The way that various individuals and factions interact in Red China is quite unique and is based as much on older Chinese traditions as it is on Communism. So, having said that, one has to see the one child policy as much as a political device, as propaganda, as a 'show policy' of the government (kind of like a show factory designed to impress VIP visitors) as an actual policy of birth control. The Communist system in China, like those in other countries, has the problem of generating convinient truths (not so true truths) and then having them enforced officially and generated further by various media and information 'organs'. The problem that makes this worse is no transparency, no idependent media to challenge the illusions or political opposition groups to do the same. Then there is 'merit' but it is merit as defined by the Chinese Communist system.

 

What this boils down to is that the Chinese Communists are isolated in many ways from the reality of their own country, that they believe in what suits them most to believe in and that in many way the one child policy, like so many other policies, should not be taken at face value. Do not mistake Chinese government policies for Western government policies even if they were to sound the same.

 

I studied Chinese Communist history at uni and the hardest lesson was to not take them as Westerners wrapped in the apperance only of a different policitical system and culture.

 

What we take as ruthlessness has been the typical working fashion for Chinese Governments going back thousands of years. Neither Nationalism or Communism changed that.

[Harbringe]

Well this is odd ,have been going over demographics of India and China from the period of 1980 till now and both of them had a higher male to female ratio ,it has resulted in there being 35 million extra males in China and 25 million extra males in India but according to demographic norms they weren't excessively high ratios they were just at the high end of what was considered normal,based on historical norms.The odd thing is that currently in the male to female ratio both countries have shot up in having more males to females in the 1 - 15 age category.For India its now 113 males to 100 females and in China its 117 males to 100 females.If those numbers continue for say 20 or 30 years the current male to female imbalance will be small compared to those potential numbers.This is occurring in India where as far as I know they don't have any kind of child policy and China when it comes to their policy is in the process of relaxing it.

 

Would anyone know how to do the math on that to determine what it would result in say in 20 or 30 years ,my guess is that for each of them its going to be 50 - 60 million plus.

[Vindekarr]

Maths? I hate maths. Damn you Harbinge why'd you have to use the devil "M" word?

 

Ehh, Im sure someone will. But it's nice to know the actual figures for this, finaly. I think my initial opinions were based largely on ignorance. that really isnt much of an imablance.

 

And no, really, I didnt actualy do calculus, or algebra, I instead was doing double science, history, and art classes. much more interesting. I mean, I can do any everyday matha, I just hated the algebra, I will never have use for that sort of knowledge.

[Surenas]

The most negative effect of the 79er one-child policy to avoid overpopulation was the sudden omnipresence of the oldfashioned son and heir concept, deeply rooted in all forms of feudalism and especially in the Chinese patriarchalism. And that's the background of the strange shift in the newborn to males we're talking about. Chinese people want to have a male heir, and that's why induced abortion comes into play to satisfy the questionable needs of the parents.

Sex determination per ultrasound is already or will be soon prohibited in China to come back to a balance of nature in the sexes. The exact commencement of the sex act is an utter stranger to me though.

[Mr Ham]

Why were we discussing limiting food/resources? Is there any documented record that diminishing resources was a factor in the introduction of the one-child policy?

[Surenas]

The largest famine of the 20th century and almost certainly of all time was the 1958–61 Great Leap Forward famine in China with some 30-45 million fatalities. That was one of the main reasons for the introduction of what Chinese officials euphemistically call "family planning policy" - the attempt to control the rapid population growth in China and to avoid a dire remake, in particular by political reasons cos the credibility of the communist system under Deng Xiaoping was at stake at the eve of the trial against the "Gang of Four", among them the infamous Mao widow Jiang Qing. Today, one generation after its introduction the problem of too many lone male singles, often equipped with crippled skills in human interaction caused by a growth as pampered only child, is at hand and thus in the debate (something one could have imagined already at start).

[Maharg67]

Well this is odd ,have been going over demographics of India and China from the period of 1980 till now and both of them had a higher male to female ratio ,it has resulted in there being 35 million extra males in China and 25 million extra males in India but according to demographic norms they weren't excessively high ratios they were just at the high end of what was considered normal,based on historical norms.The odd thing is that currently in the male to female ratio both countries have shot up in having more males to females in the 1 - 15 age category.For India its now 113 males to 100 females and in China its 117 males to 100 females.If those numbers continue for say 20 or 30 years the current male to female imbalance will be small compared to those potential numbers.This is occurring in India where as far as I know they don't have any kind of child policy and China when it comes to their policy is in the process of relaxing it.

 

Would anyone know how to do the math on that to determine what it would result in say in 20 or 30 years ,my guess is that for each of them its going to be 50 - 60 million plus.

 

Harbringe, who provided these stats?

[Harbringe]

Well this is odd ,have been going over demographics of India and China from the period of 1980 till now and both of them had a higher male to female ratio ,it has resulted in there being 35 million extra males in China and 25 million extra males in India but according to demographic norms they weren't excessively high ratios they were just at the high end of what was considered normal,based on historical norms.The odd thing is that currently in the male to female ratio both countries have shot up in having more males to females in the 1 - 15 age category.For India its now 113 males to 100 females and in China its 117 males to 100 females.If those numbers continue for say 20 or 30 years the current male to female imbalance will be small compared to those potential numbers.This is occurring in India where as far as I know they don't have any kind of child policy and China when it comes to their policy is in the process of relaxing it.

 

Would anyone know how to do the math on that to determine what it would result in say in 20 or 30 years ,my guess is that for each of them its going to be 50 - 60 million plus.

 

Harbringe, who provided these stats?

The US Government (CIA Factbook) there were other sources I was looking at but came to realize that most were the same statistics as the CIA ,seemed to me they were mostly quoting the same reports .Don't know if I would be comfortable with the CIA in my government but they do have very accurate information.

[Burnagirl]

The only reason I'm going to quote the following - and yes it's a complete quote - is because the subject in question has veered off track a few times, yet in keeping with the "spirit" of the topic, namely that of chinese childbirth I offer up the following

for your pleasure ... enjoy

 

 

Chinese superstitions and traditions about pregnancy

 

A Chinese baby is an entity by itself from the moment of conception thus at birth the child is deemed as being 1 year old.

From the moment the pregnancy is confirmed, the mother is subjected to many traditional dos and don'ts.

The most common of these is the food factor.

A pregnant woman's cravings, no matter how bizarre, has to be catered to, lest the child is born with a drooling predisposition.

Though the cravings are tended to, any craving for foods that are considered not to be good for the child are only eaten with moderation in the belief that the taste of that food will have staved off thatdrool factor. Foods that are classified as being too heaty or too cooling are deemed not good as these foods are able to cause a miscarriage in women with a weak countenance.

The confirmation of pregnancy is kept quiet and only made known among family and close friends to guard against the evil eye by jealous entities.

The early stages of pregnancy are considered the most sensitive and expectant mother is treated with kid gloves.

She is not allowed to do anything menial, lift anything heavy or walk around a lot as all these might cause a miscarriage.

The marital bed is not to be moved during the whole pregnancy term as any such movement may affect the foetus and cause a miscarriage.

Use of tools like the hammer or pliers in the house by the expectant couple is not encouraged as it may accidently cause a hare lip or blindness in the child.

If it cannot be avoided, then the child must always be literally called upon to stay away.

Chinese belief that the unborn child's spirit is already wandering around in the house and as it cannot be seen, we might hit or pull it by accident causing actual damage to the baby.

The expectant couple are also not encouraged to watch scary movies.

Even though the child can be reminded that it is a movie and there is nothing to be afraid of, an unexpected scare could cause damage and the birth of a mentally disabled baby.

The expectant couple are also to watch their behaviour and language if they want to birth a well behaved filial baby.

In other words, the unborn child is to be treated as though it is already there by virtue of it's spirit wandering around the house.

These superstitions may seem far fetched but I think practising these restraints from the moment of conception is a good way to train young couples in having a young one in the house.