The chinese government is stupid

[Aurielius]

I am quite aware that man has always been overhunting. That´s what created Easter Islands. I know. But my sig does not speak of that kind of hunting. It speaks of the European overhunting of their own species. Europeans hunted down and exterminated Amerinds and Aborigines, and partly Polynesians. Just for greed.

 

 

Just out of curiosity what were the European aboriginal tribes and where in Europe where they? As for the American Indians though reduced in numbers are alive and well and not yet extinct. If you are referring to the Central and South American Indians it was a immunological disaster that befell then more than some form of corporate planned genocide. The easter Island ecological implosion was an act of self inflicted devastation by the inhabitants, well in progress before the first westerner arrived. Extinction is a natural process and ecologically sound, that has been in place for millions of years, it creates new niches and other life forms move up and take advantage of the voids in the ecological balance. One day even man will be extinct and something else will assume our position and the planet will move on just as it did after all the great extinctions in the past. We are transitory the planet though not eternal is permanent in comparison.

[grannywils]

To raise one cow for market takes the same amount of resources that would be needed to feed a few hundred people for a year .yet that cow if given to those few hundred people wouldn't even provide enough for one meal.

Erm, this is rather flawed logic and smells quite a bit like too much vegan propaganda. While yes, the raw food value of a cow does not equal the raw food value of what it takes to feed that cow, there is no good alternative for animal proteins, and if you did the dietary research, you would see rather alarmingly that strict vegans are significantly more prone to certain diseases, and even decreased brain function if they've been following that diet for long enough. Furthermore, the output of a single cow is not merely in the meat we eat, but in all the other things which are rendered from that animal. There are also benefits from the manure, which is used to fertilize crops, and the emitted gasses which are now often collected and used to fuel local operations instead of drawing from the power grid.

 

All that food that goes into a single cow hardly goes to waste, and actually helps establish a chain of renewable resources which makes other things possible. There is much more to food value than just what fills you. Let's be honest, if a livestock animal didn't put out more than was put into it, they wouldn't exist, period.

 

Vagrant0, Those were, as usual, all excellent points, profoundly and articulately presented. I invariably find myself agreeing with Harbringe on most topics, but I totally agree with you on this one. And I don't even like beef.

 

[Mr Ham]

 

@Balagor

I wouldn't blow your own horn about your sig. Polynesians, Amerinds and Aborigines were notorious violators of the natural realm. The anthropological and archaeological records of where they lived bear the evidence. They over-farmed, over-populated and over-hunted. They were no more in tune with the planet than modern man is today. I normally wouldn't bother with this but you pointed out your sig in this thread. ;)

What Aborigines do you refer to? Indigenous Australians? Its rather alarming to hear that native Americans and Polynesians were so callous. Do you have any links to original research?

[Kendo 2]

@ Mr Ham

Australian Aborigines used fire stick forestry to fundamentaly change the face of prehistoric Australia, destroying the habitats of the native mega fauna. The Mayans of the Yucatán Peninsula over-farmed their lands to the point of ruin and all of the jungle there now has grown in the last 1000 years. And we all know what the Rapa Nui did to Easter Island.

[Surenas]

The often foolish ancestors that were still rooted to the soil and their local small-scale destructions of the land and its resources are hardly responsible for the large-scale ecocide by the ravaging industrial age. The early man and his strange hunting techniques are not the cause for the today extinction of big game in the wild like the Chinese Père David's Deer two years ago, the upcoming one of the Siberian tiger or the ongoing wastening of the Subtropics with emphasis on Africa. The argument is thus one from silence. But what have Mayan corn monoculture and the limited resources of an isolated object like the Easter Island to do with the Chinese government of today? Actually nothing.

[Harbringe]

To raise one cow for market takes the same amount of resources that would be needed to feed a few hundred people for a year .yet that cow if given to those few hundred people wouldn't even provide enough for one meal.

Erm, this is rather flawed logic and smells quite a bit like too much vegan propaganda. While yes, the raw food value of a cow does not equal the raw food value of what it takes to feed that cow, there is no good alternative for animal proteins, and if you did the dietary research, you would see rather alarmingly that strict vegans are significantly more prone to certain diseases, and even decreased brain function if they've been following that diet for long enough. Furthermore, the output of a single cow is not merely in the meat we eat, but in all the other things which are rendered from that animal. There are also benefits from the manure, which is used to fertilize crops, and the emitted gasses which are now often collected and used to fuel local operations instead of drawing from the power grid.

 

All that food that goes into a single cow hardly goes to waste, and actually helps establish a chain of renewable resources which makes other things possible. There is much more to food value than just what fills you. Let's be honest, if a livestock animal didn't put out more than was put into it, they wouldn't exist, period.

 

At one time they did put out more than what is now currently put into them ,the cow we know is a product of selective breeding that has occurred over a milenium .The amount (resources) that is put into them is from the cattle industry itself ,I know this because my grandmother when she was alive raised cattle ,I myself used to herd and feed them. Its not vegan propaganda cause I'm no vegan (love my T bones) but that doesn't mean I'm going to minimize the impact our consumption habits are having.Same is true for the breeds of swine that are currently utilized in industrial farming only difference in eating habits between the two is that pigs are like goats ,they can eat a wide variety of foods ,cattle on the other hand are limited in what they can eat and if you want the maximum return of your investment you feed it the best grain you can ,which is also the kind of grains humans would eat.

 

PS just realized something, The ratio of resources used is not on a year basis for the cattle ,it generally is at the end of 3 years when a cow will be sent to market ,sometimes 4 ,mind you it still comes out that you could feed a lot more humans by not raising the cow.

[brokenergy]

Earth would eventually be unable to sustain us even if we be careful and we are left with two choices. We could start searching for new worlds and upgrade our space technology or fight for the resources. It was going to happen and no matter what we do we can't stop it but if we start laying the blame game on western governments or humans it won't solve the problem. The only solution that doesn't cost lives is space and space is what we should focus there. We should also realize that we can also grow some fruit and vegs in our own home (and apartments too) and it can lower our food bills. I just hope people use this idea more often.

[Maharg67]

While it is true that various native peoples did do damage to the environment at certain stages, most in the longer term they became in tune with their environment and gained a sustainable way of existence. Australian Aboriginals might have helped to destroy the megafauna but were not the only cause of that happening and by the time Europeans arrived, the same Aboriginals had lived in harmony with nature for a thousands of years. In contrast modern industrial civilization has brought the world to the bring of environmental collapse within a couple of centuries.

[Aurielius]

But what have Mayan corn monoculture and the limited resources of an isolated object like the Easter Island to do with the Chinese government of today? Actually nothing.

As much as this truly pains me, and it does ..she is absolutely correct. We are so far off course, the topic is no longer in sight. Mea culpa.

[Vagrant0]

And this thread has gone wildly off track...