kniggit92 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Irileth. She's completely out of place in Whiterun, wears armor that is worse than guard armor for some reason, has no background story and yet we're just supposed to accept her... She also totally kills the atmosphere after killing the first dragon.. Basically destroying the feeling you get after you discover you are dragonborn.. calling out some nords who clearly know much more about *this dragonborn business* than she does.. Oh and that brings me to Proventus, why would an imperial call dragonborns nord nonsense, when the emperors were the most famous dragonborns ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Still wish we had the option to give Proventus a little nudge with the "Fus" shout when he says the player shows no signs of being Dragonborn. Would shut him up a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Irileth. She's completely out of place in Whiterun, wears armor that is worse than guard armor for some reason, has no background story and yet we're just supposed to accept her... She also totally kills the atmosphere after killing the first dragon.. Basically destroying the feeling you get after you discover you are dragonborn.. calling out some nords who clearly know much more about *this dragonborn business* than she does.. Oh and that brings me to Proventus, why would an imperial call dragonborns nord nonsense, when the emperors were the most famous dragonborns ever?Those are all kind of dept with contextually within the wider world... Irileth is stated to be an old adventuring.g buddy of Balgruf, who stayed on as his captain when he tool over the Hold. She's sceptical and pragmatic because that's what the Dunmer are. They know about the Thu'um, and have beaten it before, so they're not easily impressed by nudging some Dragon bones... And the Nords have a LOT of really silly myths... As for Proventus... Dragonborn means something totally different in Cyrodiil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniggit92 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Just because it's lore friendly, that doesn't make it immersive or well written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I.. what? Isn't immersion about being part of the world? Both those things make perfect sslense, are explained in-universe, and the characters statements are in keeping witth their personalities and outlooks. Bad writing is watching Farkas turn into a werewolf, the BIGGEST secret the Companions have, and no one so much as questioning you about it. All you get is an 'Oops, so... You saw that... Ah well'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Bad writing is watching Farkas turn into a werewolf, the BIGGEST secret the Companions have, and no one so much as questioning you about it. All you get is an 'Oops, so... You saw that... Ah well'. Could be that entire thing was planned. Maybe not that exact scenario - but at least a job in which Farkas would change and reveal the inner circles secret to the player (since you know, since he's apparently not good at keeping secrets), in order to judge whether they were made of the right material to join their little club. It's the sort of thing I can see Skor and Kodlak putting together to test you. That situation with some unknown scolar offering the location of a Wuthraad fragment is suspect from the beginning to anyone with sense (right, Farkas?) So sending out a new recruit and the most likely to "forget" he's not supposed to let anyone see him fuzz out to go searching for the fragment would give a high chance of a hostile encounter, setting up the real test - how you handle the situation with Farkas after he's changed. You accept it and return with him, you've passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniggit92 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I.. what? Isn't immersion about being part of the world? Both those things make perfect sslense, are explained in-universe, and the characters statements are in keeping witth their personalities and outlooks. Bad writing is watching Farkas turn into a werewolf, the BIGGEST secret the Companions have, and no one so much as questioning you about it. All you get is an 'Oops, so... You saw that... Ah well'. I'm saying their personas are immersion breaking and badly written. There is no mention of how Balgruuf, a very traditional nord, would have ever met up with Irileth or why she would be his most trusted housecarl. It stays vague, you'd expect a lot more background because it just feels like they put her there for some diversity. It makes no sense for avenici to call dragonborn business *nord nonesense* when the most famous dragonborn in history, was an emperor, the founder of the third empire (yes I know there's many tiber septims etc but we're talking imperial viewpoint here) he could have maybe protested or showed signs of disbelief, but calling it nord nonsense makes zero sense.. You don't get an oops so you saw that, kodlak spends a lot of time explaining and talking to you about the beast blood... there is a ton of background, story and quests involving werewolfdom, you get a lot of story about how farkas and vilkas struggle with it, you get the struggle between skjor/aela and kodlak etc. It sounds like you didn't read everything and payed little attention when playing the companions questline.. (did you read the journal of Kodlak?) after kodlak gets cured there's actually a ton more quests about werewolves too.. If you think this was badly written but think avenici and irileth are fine then... just what? Edited February 21, 2015 by kniggit92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I'm saying their personas are immersion breaking and badly written. There is no mention of how Balgruuf, a very traditional nord, would have ever met up with Irileth or why she would be his most trusted housecarl. It stays vague, you'd expect a lot more background because it just feels like they put her there for some diversity. It makes no sense for avenici to call dragonborn business *nord nonesense* when the most famous dragonborn in history, was an emperor, the founder of the third empire (yes I know there's many tiber septims etc but we're talking imperial viewpoint here) he could have maybe protested or showed signs of disbelief, but calling it nord nonsense makes zero sense..In terms of Irileth, they are stated to be old adventuring partners. This is really ALL the explanation needed. Nordic leaders doing extensive adventuring or military service before taking the throne has been established lore since Daggerfall, and we know a huge population of Dunmer made Skyrim home after the Red Year. We don't need to know the specifics of the first adventure they shared, but we ARE told that they shared numerous adventures, and when Balgruf became Karl he asked her to stay on as captain. And Avenchi calling the Dragonborn Nord Nonsense... According to Imperial myths, there are no Dragonborn. What little associating relation there is to the notion in Cyrodiil ties directly into the Covenant, not the Dragonborn nonsense. Remain banged the Spirit of Alessia, and Septim didn't really do anything of note to 'gain' legitimacy. Whats more, almost no one KNEW about the links to the Amulet of Kings and the Dragonborn (we are explicitly told in Oblivion that the Ruby Throne is viewed as the symbol of legitimacy, not the Amulet). There is no reason for an Imperial to believe in the Dragonborn anymore than there was for one to believe in the Nerevarine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniggit92 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) You say there isn't any more info needed, I say there is, being the only dunmer in whiterun more background is needed, she is just there for diversity now. A lot of missed potential and bad writing. She invokes interest yet you get left with nothing when you ask about her background aside from some vague notion. Dunmer (and all elves for that matter) tend to stick to their fellow race members or stay secluded. Her being a housecarl for a nord is very out of character for a dunmer. According to imperial myths there are no dragonborn? What are you talking about dude... Talos/tiber septim/the dragonborn/ysmir was worshipped by all imperials until the white gold concordate.. Even the elder scrolls, contained in the imperial capital tell of dragonborns.. Edited February 21, 2015 by kniggit92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 According to imperial myths there are no dragonborn? What are you talking about dude... Talos/tiber septim/the dragonborn/ysmir was worshipped by all imperials until the white gold concordate.. Even the elder scrolls, contained in the imperial capital tell of dragonborns..The Scrolls talk about a lot of things. They also mention the Mneoli, but no one actually believes they exist (because frankly, they just don't care about Mundus). They are also not open for general access, and most of what is learned from them is a very, VERY closely guarded secret amongst the Moth Priests. Plus... You know... They're missing. And no, the Dragonborn was never part of the Talos cult. The title of Ysmir is mentioned in some versions of the myths, but it's links to the Dragonborn are virtually nonexistent. In fact, the Imperial myths indicate Tier was given the title by the Greybeards for his conquest of Skyrim, not for the Dragon Blood (the Arcturian Heresy is the first place that argues that the Nords were Tiber's allies). Imperial myths about Tiber Septik make absolutely no reference to Dragonborn or anything of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts