Armour; Fantasy vs Reality

[Lachdonin]

This is something of a query regarding where people stand on armours... I'm not talking about skimpy vs functional, i'm talking about Fantasy vs Reality. Armours that work, vs armours which are entirely hogwash.

 

Most of the armours in Skyrim are variations of Plate, with a few notable exceptions. The Guard armours are your standard mail, some including scaling, there's Scaled Armour, there's Leather...

 

And then there's Studded Leather, and Hide.

 

Both of these are entirely fictitious varieties of protection. While some other armours in Fantasy are made of strange and exotic materials, they are still based off functional, real-world styles of protective outer wear. Hide (as well as Fur) and Studded Leather, however, have no historical precedence, and frankly, either offer no protection, or nothing to validate the waste of metal. Artistic styles of armour are one thing, and actually have some historical presence (Henry VIII's rather infamous parade armour, a gift from Maximilian as an example) but these 'armours' aren't, for a lack of a better term, real.

 

They are, however, a common Fantasy trope. Studded Leather in particular has found its place as an armour of choice for Rangers, Theives and others who favour 'Light armour' in fantasy settings.

 

So, i guess the question is... In fantasy, where we have plenty of exotic materials to work with when looking at expanding armour variety... Is maintaining the use of a type of armour that has no historical precedence, offers no additional protection compared to Leather, and is frankly very easy to replace worth it? Even moreso, is maintaining the common fantasy trope of Light-Medium-Heavy armours necessary anymore? Particularly in a franchise which has been trying to push immersion and 'realism'?

[JimboUK]

Armours in games tend to be driven by Hollywood rather than reality, thieves for example should really wear light loose clothing with big pockets, not tight leather where you couldn't fit anything in the pockets. I don't see any of it as a problem though, the Elder Scrolls has never concerned itself with being realistic and why should it? it's set in a fantasy world with talking cats and people who shoot fire and lightning from their hands.

[Lachdonin]

the Elder Scrolls has never concerned itself with being realistic and why should it?

 

It has though, with the obvious exception of the magic. The art design and world has always been quite grounded, and they've constantly tried to move towards less, RPG-Trope systems to more naturalistic elements. Abandoning EXP based leveling, ending roll based combat, doing away with static classes.

 

TES has been progressively moving away from the standard RPG into more realistic (and at the same time more expansive) elements. Because of that trend, is it time to do away with Armour Classes and totally nonsense armours? Or are people really attached to the trope?

[Kestrellius]

Oh good grief. Allow me to explain this. Again. Magic does not make a universe "unrealistic". It makes it not our universe. Magic is a "real" part of the world on Nirn. However, Newtonian physics in general work pretty much the same way (whatever the buggy game mechanics might tell you.) This means that with the exception of the changes that the existence of magic would make, things like armor should be pretty much the same way they are here. Being speculative fiction does not exempt your setting from logic, unless logic explicitly doesn't work the same way there as it does here. There's nothing about dragons and unicorns that's implausible; they just don't exist in our world. (That we know of, but what are the chances, really?) I mean you could make the argument that dragons violate physics and flight mechanics, but that's not the point. It's a deviation from the realities of our universe, but that doesn't make it silly and pointless, and it certainly doesn't mean that you can flout internal inconsistency.

 

On topic: I hadn't actually realized that fur armor wasn't a thing. Hadn't really thought about it. That hide armor, though...yeah, keep on wearing those two strips of leather, pal. Those'll do you a world of good against the forty-below temperatures and arrows.

 

As for light versus heavy armor, I'm not sure. Light armor -- at least the good kind -- in TES is usually made out of things like malachite and moonstone, that don't exist (as such) in our universe. Which is an example of the differences between worlds manifesting themselves in how things are done, by the way.

[notmyhome]

Do we know there never was leather armour though? I don't think much of it would remain if it had been worn by Ancient Greek or Roman troops.

 

Even if they didn't exist, I'm all for keeping them in. Just imagine Tamriel's animal's hides are different from our world's in a way which allows for making them extra hard via tanning.

[JimboUK]

 

the Elder Scrolls has never concerned itself with being realistic and why should it?

 

It has though, with the obvious exception of the magic. The art design and world has always been quite grounded, and they've constantly tried to move towards less, RPG-Trope systems to more naturalistic elements. Abandoning EXP based leveling, ending roll based combat, doing away with static classes.

 

TES has been progressively moving away from the standard RPG into more realistic (and at the same time more expansive) elements. Because of that trend, is it time to do away with Armour Classes and totally nonsense armours? Or are people really attached to the trope?

 

 

TES has been moving away from the creative and more towards the bland Hollywoodesque look that you'll find in movies and countless other games, I'll take Morrowinds look over Skyrims any day of the week. As for realism there is more to it than shoving a bit of dirt on peoples faces, you want a world that feels real, Skyrim feels like a theme park because nothing you do in it makes the slightest bit of difference to anything. You want NPCs that talk like normal people, not like people suffering from some kind of mental illness. You want characters to care about what's happening in the world, in Skyrim no one seems to be slightest bit bothered about dragons or anything else. If they want to move away from dice rolls and onto twitch based combat then it needs to feel real, the awful combat in Skyrim certainly doesn't. You want animations that don't scream "Video game!!!!" every time you see an NPC do anything, the list goes on.

 

The Elder Scrolls is not moving towards realism, quite the opposite, it's become a dumbed down action game where only making the world pretty is of any importance, the rest is phoned in.

 

@Kestrellius If you can include talking cats and magic because the rules of a different world apply then you can also excuse the bikini armours and anything else for exactly the same reason

[KanesGhost]

Do we know there never was leather armour though? I don't think much of it would remain if it had been worn by Ancient Greek or Roman troops.

 

Even if they didn't exist, I'm all for keeping them in. Just imagine Tamriel's animal's hides are different from our world's in a way which allows for making them extra hard via tanning.

Yes, Leather Armor existed (Boiled Leather) and was more than adequately effective, what the OP was referring to is Fur, Hide and Studded Leather....Studs were used to fuse pieces together, but not as Armor in and of themselves, in fact they were more a liability than a help.

[BigBizkit]

I would not say that the franchise is moving towards more realism. One reason Morrowind is less cookie cutter RPG than Skyrim (or appears that way) is that Morrowind is a Dunmer province and Skyrim a human one. The design choice is that the human races of Tamriel are closer to our world than the non human races.

 

I for one am "attached to nonsensical armor". I do not care if it existed in our world. I care about the armor being cool and somewhat plausible.

 

I do not think more realism = more immersion = more fun.

[sanslaw]

I'm about as boring as they come on my views of how weapons and armor are represented in games. When I was young I'd bury my nose in history books about castles, armors, weapons, and have always preferred real armor over fantasy. My largest gripe with the Final Fantasy series is their cartoonish representations of weapons and armor and even today I only dress my avatars in something resembling actual, functional armor. I have little use for swords that are ten feet long or armor designs that look like they would fail long before an arrow or blade came near them. I love having many armor types to choose from, but only when they are customized renditions of something that existed, be it adding a wild color or tunic design. I guess I just don't want my character to look like a Gwar reject.

[Bloodinfested]

I certainly don’t mind realistic armors or weapons in a game but Tes has been moving in the opposite direction as far as realism is concerned. If you look how the sound effects were done the guy doing it even said they tried to do it realistic but choose the Hollywood style he claims because thats what ppl want to hear.

You have glass armor and weapons, a combination of metal and volcanic glass isn’t something you would want to make armor or weapons out of. volcanic glass knife might be a excellent tool for skinning an animal or cutting fruit but would make a poor weapon in combat.

The thing Tes has going for it even though its fantasy setting most weapons and armors are relatively functional. Games like Final fantasy take it to the extreme like the Buster sword the human body couldn’t swing a 60lb or whatever it would amount to sword effectively. On big giant swords they had a bodybuilder using a buster sword he really couldn’t use it.

Even down to the classes one could point out originally it use to be more realistic based on limitations back in the middle ages you didn’t see ppl doing everything archer, swordsmen, pikemen, knight, merchant, herbalist, messenger, innkeeper, miner, glassblower, cook, diplomat, baker, bricklayer, shipwright, physician, locksmith, blacksmith, ect...You can find a few non combat rolls in some RPGS but they focused more on just combat professions instead of non combat rolls mixed with a little fantasy.