Armour; Fantasy vs Reality

[kniggit92]

 

but a thousand years ago everyone from peasant farmers to relatively wealthy landowners knew how to do it) but the cardinal question remains.

 

everyone knew how to do it in our world.

 

 

Was going to say this. In the world of Skyrim everyone is pretty much specialized in one or two things, a mage is usually adept in one or maybe two schools, a smith is usually only good at smithing, a fletcher is only good at fletching, an alchemist is only good at alchemy, the fighters guild (companions) is specialized in fighting and don't know how to smith (which is why they have Eorlund to do it for them) etc etc.

The only races that teach hunting and smithing to their children are orcs and wood elfs.

Humans (especially nords) are usually only good at what their father is good at, unless they become an adventurer, become an apprentice or join a guild.

 

Oh and @Lachdonin, have you ever listened to what these bandits say when you sneak near them? They sound pretty retarded to me :)

Edited April 2, 2015 by kniggit92

[kniggit92]

Have to also consider the variety of armor back in the day wasn’t for the sake of style it was a matter of affording such armors most ppl couldn’t afford heavy armor such as plate mail so they resorted to chain mail or leather. Much like weaponry in that time the Vikings primary used axes because swords were an luxury specially the Ulfberht. If your a farmer getting raided at that point anything is better then nothing.

I wouldn’t mind them getting rid of glass for the sake of it being more realistic replaced by Adamantium and Mithril in the older games. I realize some ppl like glass armor it is fantasy but so is Adamantium an metal substance is more suitable for armor then volcanic glass. If some guy hit ya with a iron mace your wearing glass armor it probably do far more damage to you wearing the armor all the razor glass fragments shattering and going into your skin.

Light medium and heavy armor more less defines the weight of the armor the way the perk tree is set up it only adds to more customization of your character.

 

Glass in elder scrolls is not the same as glass in our world.

[Bloodinfested]

 

Have to also consider the variety of armor back in the day wasn’t for the sake of style it was a matter of affording such armors most ppl couldn’t afford heavy armor such as plate mail so they resorted to chain mail or leather. Much like weaponry in that time the Vikings primary used axes because swords were an luxury specially the Ulfberht. If your a farmer getting raided at that point anything is better then nothing.

I wouldn’t mind them getting rid of glass for the sake of it being more realistic replaced by Adamantium and Mithril in the older games. I realize some ppl like glass armor it is fantasy but so is Adamantium an metal substance is more suitable for armor then volcanic glass. If some guy hit ya with a iron mace your wearing glass armor it probably do far more damage to you wearing the armor all the razor glass fragments shattering and going into your skin.

Light medium and heavy armor more less defines the weight of the armor the way the perk tree is set up it only adds to more customization of your character.

 

Glass in elder scrolls is not the same as glass in our world.

 

Actually in UESPwiki the armor uses rare metals & volcanic glass not something you would really want to use.

[kniggit92]

It uses malachite and moonstone. Malachite is very similar to ebony except it's more flexible and not as durable which makes it suitable for light armor.

Glass in elder scrolls is not the glass used in windows that we know, they have that kind of glass in elder scrolls too but it's not the same as malachite glass.

 

Oh and yes there exists malachite and moonstone in our world, but they're not the same in the elder scrolls world, just like ebony isn't a metal, but wood in our world.

Edited April 2, 2015 by kniggit92

[Kestrellius]

You know, fur armor actually starts to make a lot more sense if you have Frostfall installed...

 

Also, on the subject of female armor: there's not really such a thing in real life, because in real life women don't fight in wars. Although I will say I appreciate the equal-opportunity butchery in TES. It kind of bothers me that the mooks we kill by the hundreds in video games are almost invariably all men...

[kniggit92]

You couldn't be more wrong Kestrellius. History had plenty of female warriors. Look up Boudica, Joan of Arc, Lozen etc.

Edited April 2, 2015 by kniggit92

[Lachdonin]

You couldn't be more wrong Kestrellius. History had plenty of female warriors. Look up Boudica, Joan of Arc, Lozen etc.

Yeah, while not the most common, women were very much involved in warfare periodically throughout history and across cultures. Some cultures, such as the Celtic people's, didn't make much differentiation between the sexes in warfare. Others, such as Rome, forbid female combatants. Some others, such as a few early Persian societies, didn't impose any restrictions but ended up far more segregated by individual preference than even Rome... And in India and the Orient women of upper status rather commonly fought alongside their husbands. True, female combatants were rather uncommon during Europe's Medieval period and onward, but even then they cropped up occasionally. Even Queen Elizabeth I wore armour on at least 2 occasions, despite it being a massove social taboo. So they were definately there, but because the basic laws of functionality remained the same across the sexes, their attire was virtually identicle even in the era of fitted plate.

 

As for Glass... Morrowind describes Glass as a hard though brittle volcanic glass, similar to Ebony (which is also a glass) though far more common. In Skyrim, they use Malichite, which seems to be a similar substance (as opposed to the copper rich ore it is in the real world) and may just be another name for the same material... But it is definately not analogous to real world glasses, volcanic or otherwise. That doesn't mean there isn't room for other metals like Adamantium and Mithril, but Glass has a very solidified presence in TES as a viable material.

 

It's also incorrect to say that the Light Medium Heavy divide pertains to the weight of armour, because a full suit of boiled leather weights about as much as a Plate Harness... But without the advantage of being well articulated and partially self supporting... The only justification for it is derrived from protection, in which heave armours very definitely offer more protection in traditional fantasy settings, but even this breaks down in TES because of the array of materials.

 

 

So I'll change the question, I guess... I've made my concerns about the trope and it's lack of internal justification quite clear at this point,so I'm not going to just repeat myself until I'm blue in the face.

 

Since things like hides, Studded Leather, and the Light-Medium-Heavy scale exist only as a fantasy trope and do not function within the setting, is it time to move on to something else? Or are these concepts so ingrained in RPG players that they cannot fathom improving upon it (such as a classless system and the outrage that precipitated)?

[Kestrellius]

Oh, right. I was forgetting the fact that there would have been female armor, simply due to the exceptions...nonetheless, I'm fairly certain a society in which women fought to a similar degree as men wouldn't be sustainable, simply because you need lots of non-dead women to keep your population going.

 

I'm not really sure what you intend to replace the light-medium-heavy scale with, though. Basically just all heavy armor, or what? Or do you just mean doing away with the "low-end" light armors like leather and such?

[Lachdonin]

The rough system I've been tinkering with is based on milestones in armouring. Leather, Scale, Mail, Plate. Under ideal circumstances, only cost would really matter, but RPGs tend to implement some awkward systems for variety and to implement awkwar mechanics... Basically, Leather would be sneaky and resistant to elements (leather is neither thermally conductive nor electrically). Scale is highly resistant to bladed weapons but rather vulnerable to arrows. Mail is highly resistant to arrows (due to its flexible nature allowing for extensive padding) but very vulnerable to blunt force, while Plate offers the best all round protection but cann tire you our over periods of use (lower stamina regeneration).

[vram1974]

 

I generally find skimpy armour ludicrous, to downright offensive.

 

Yeah.... except it's neither ludicrous nor offensive. It's LORE-FRIENDLY.

 

http://i.imgur.com/qsulusU.jpg