Paid mods for skyrim workshop on steam

[phenderix]

 

I mean I could change it to not say free version if that helps.

I understand what you mean. There has been nothing said about it though.

 

I mean my premium version will also be giving to Skryim Nexus, why can't I have a free version on Nexus for people who don't want to buy premium version on Steam Workshop?

Either way Nexus is still profiting either from revenue sharing or ad revenue.

I am not attacking you, don't get me wrong (though I do not agree with you either). You chose to go corporate, alright. I cannot stop you. Corporate life though means you need to pay for your advertising just like the rest of the advertisers on the site in my opinion.

 

 

I mean I could change it to not say free version if that helps.

I understand what you mean. There has been nothing said about it though.

 

I mean my premium version will also be giving to Skryim Nexus, why can't I have a free version on Nexus for people who don't want to buy premium version on Steam Workshop?

Either way Nexus is still profiting either from revenue sharing or ad revenue.

 

Please don't feel attacked or challenged. You're just in the position of being the first ship on the water so to speak.

 

The concern is people creating 'demo mods' on the Nexus to get free advertising for their paid mod on the Workshop. Is that a good thing, is it something the Nexus wants. What does and doesn't qualify, what is and isn't fair where that's concerned.

Again, this comes back to what I said elsewhere - by charging for your product you become a merchant more so than a member of the community. Money is a sticky subject and, as they say, 'business is business'. At what point does it stop becoming a mod you're sharing on the Nexus and instead an advertisment to drive sales on your paid site?

 

I would encourage you to reach out to the Nexus folks and see where they want those lines. At that point you need to ask yourself how you want to handle the free mod. You're monetizing your work now and as such it's not unreasonable to view what you do in that light. How do you best leverage the stuff you provide to free to maximize what you want to earn profit from.

 

How does the Nexus want to position itself relative to the Workshop - do they want to host advert mods? Do they want to support scaled down free versions that help redirect people to the paid versions? Is that actually a 'bad thing'? If so, why?

 

One of the problems with being an early adopter on a business model is you're going to be involved in answering those questions. I encourage you to be proactive in reaching out to the Nexus folks and being an active and honest part of that discussion. You've been very honest and up front about what you're doing and why and that's awesome, much appreciated. I don't see any of the other mod authors here doing so. I hope you'll put the work into helping sort that out sooner rather than later.

 

 

I definitely understand your point.

It is not like I am abandoning the nexus. All of my mods will remain on the nexus.

Just one of them will have a free version and premium version.

 

I do agree about the whole merchant comparison. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though.

Just because I become a merchant and modder doesn't mean I won't still regularly interact with the community.

 

I appreciate everything the Skyrim Nexus has done for the modding community.

I really wish Bethesda would buy the Skyrim Nexus and allow us to sell mods on the Nexus instead.

 

 

Everyone is free to voice their opinion. I honestly just think some of the backlash is amusing.

People need to stop acting like they are entitled to free mods. Publishing large works for free has always been a generosity modders have performed.

 

For me it is not entitlement that has me against this, it is the precedent set. This whole system is easily exploitable by companies.

 

Suppose a company, ElectronicSoft, wants to release day 1 DLC. They know they are going to get flak so instead they get a shell company: Ubigames to release the DLC as a paid "mod".

If they get flak, Electronicsoft can just say "Oh no, we are against Day1 DLC, but we fully support modders getting paid for their work".

As you can see, this problem is a whole lot larger than modders wanting some cash. This sets a bad precedent and for that reason must be stopped in it's tracks.

I would be all for a kickstarter/paetron/ or even the big modders hired by Bethesda to polish out their mods to sell (a la Insurgency and Garry's Mod). This free for all though is rubbish.

 

 

This doesn't make any sense. Skyrim Nexus would be profiting if my mod got a sale on the Steam Workshop.

 

Valve will definitely have to do a good job at making sure content is legitimate and not just derivatives of other work on the site.

It will be difficult and it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

 

If they decide to go back on all of this. My work will definitely go back on the Nexus.

It is just pretty ridiculous that I have only ever gotten one donation in more than 2 years of modding.

People act like the donation system is enough when no one ever really donates.

[Terramaris]

 

 

I mean I could change it to not say free version if that helps.

I understand what you mean. There has been nothing said about it though.

 

I mean my premium version will also be giving to Skryim Nexus, why can't I have a free version on Nexus for people who don't want to buy premium version on Steam Workshop?

Either way Nexus is still profiting either from revenue sharing or ad revenue.

I am not attacking you, don't get me wrong (though I do not agree with you either). You chose to go corporate, alright. I cannot stop you. Corporate life though means you need to pay for your advertising just like the rest of the advertisers on the site in my opinion.

 

 

I mean I could change it to not say free version if that helps.

I understand what you mean. There has been nothing said about it though.

 

I mean my premium version will also be giving to Skryim Nexus, why can't I have a free version on Nexus for people who don't want to buy premium version on Steam Workshop?

Either way Nexus is still profiting either from revenue sharing or ad revenue.

 

Please don't feel attacked or challenged. You're just in the position of being the first ship on the water so to speak.

 

The concern is people creating 'demo mods' on the Nexus to get free advertising for their paid mod on the Workshop. Is that a good thing, is it something the Nexus wants. What does and doesn't qualify, what is and isn't fair where that's concerned.

Again, this comes back to what I said elsewhere - by charging for your product you become a merchant more so than a member of the community. Money is a sticky subject and, as they say, 'business is business'. At what point does it stop becoming a mod you're sharing on the Nexus and instead an advertisment to drive sales on your paid site?

 

I would encourage you to reach out to the Nexus folks and see where they want those lines. At that point you need to ask yourself how you want to handle the free mod. You're monetizing your work now and as such it's not unreasonable to view what you do in that light. How do you best leverage the stuff you provide to free to maximize what you want to earn profit from.

 

How does the Nexus want to position itself relative to the Workshop - do they want to host advert mods? Do they want to support scaled down free versions that help redirect people to the paid versions? Is that actually a 'bad thing'? If so, why?

 

One of the problems with being an early adopter on a business model is you're going to be involved in answering those questions. I encourage you to be proactive in reaching out to the Nexus folks and being an active and honest part of that discussion. You've been very honest and up front about what you're doing and why and that's awesome, much appreciated. I don't see any of the other mod authors here doing so. I hope you'll put the work into helping sort that out sooner rather than later.

 

 

I definitely understand your point.

It is not like I am abandoning the nexus. All of my mods will remain on the nexus.

Just one of them will have a free version and premium version.

 

I do agree about the whole merchant comparison. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though.

Just because I become a merchant and modder doesn't mean I won't still regularly interact with the community.

 

I appreciate everything the Skyrim Nexus has done for the modding community.

I really wish Bethesda would buy the Skyrim Nexus and allow us to sell mods on the Nexus instead.

 

 

Everyone is free to voice their opinion. I honestly just think some of the backlash is amusing.

People need to stop acting like they are entitled to free mods. Publishing large works for free has always been a generosity modders have performed.

 

For me it is not entitlement that has me against this, it is the precedent set. This whole system is easily exploitable by companies.

 

Suppose a company, ElectronicSoft, wants to release day 1 DLC. They know they are going to get flak so instead they get a shell company: Ubigames to release the DLC as a paid "mod".

If they get flak, Electronicsoft can just say "Oh no, we are against Day1 DLC, but we fully support modders getting paid for their work".

As you can see, this problem is a whole lot larger than modders wanting some cash. This sets a bad precedent and for that reason must be stopped in it's tracks.

I would be all for a kickstarter/paetron/ or even the big modders hired by Bethesda to polish out their mods to sell (a la Insurgency and Garry's Mod). This free for all though is rubbish.

 

 

This doesn't make any sense. Skyrim Nexus would be profiting if my mod got a sale on the Steam Workshop.

 

Valve will definitely have to do a good job at making sure content is legitimate and not just derivatives of other work on the site.

It will be difficult and it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

 

If they decide to go back on all of this. My work will definitely go back on the Nexus.

It is just pretty ridiculous that I have only ever gotten one donation in more than 2 years of modding.

People act like the donation system is enough when no one ever really donates.

 

When did I say the donation system was enough? The last line of my post I believe indicated the opposite, but I haven't slept in a while so maybe that is the tiredness talking.

 

Now if you worked out a deal with Dark0ne or the relevant person saying I want to use Nexus to advertise my main mod and I will give you a cut of my sales, I will accept it. This is also directed at every unofficial DLC maker.

[RurikNiall]

 

Everyone is free to voice their opinion. I honestly just think some of the backlash is amusing.

People need to stop acting like they are entitled to free mods. Publishing large works for free has always been a generosity modders have performed.

 

 

There's a lot more reasons for the backlash than simply "Mods should be free!" though. There's not many mods I would be willing to pay for, but any mod I do feel is worthy of it I'm certainly not going to be willing to purchase through the fustercluck that is the workshop because then I'm not paying the modder, I'm paying Valve and Bethesda for hours of hard work and effort put in by the person they're deliberately screwing over. Let's say, for example, Skywind. I'd be happy to pay $10 for Skywind, but not if the Skywind team only sees a quarter of that $10.

[Terramaris]

 

 

Everyone is free to voice their opinion. I honestly just think some of the backlash is amusing.

People need to stop acting like they are entitled to free mods. Publishing large works for free has always been a generosity modders have performed.

 

 

There's a lot more reasons for the backlash than simply "Mods should be free!" though. There's not many mods I would be willing to pay for, but any mod I do feel is worthy of it I'm certainly not going to be willing to purchase through the fustercluck that is the workshop because then I'm not paying the modder, I'm paying Valve and Bethesda for hours of hard work and effort put in by the person they're deliberately screwing over. Let's say, for example, Skywind. I'd be happy to pay $10 for Skywind, but not if the Skywind team only sees a quarter of that $10.

 

This exactly. I am a map maker on Minecraft (so I do know the struggle, although I will admit it has nothing on the difficulty of Skyrim Modding) and the way the community there compensates modders is through ad.fly links, ain't the best, but it is a step in the right direction. Modders should be compensated. The way the workshop is setup though compensates Valve more than it does you.

 

Free content that compensates modders can work if implemented well. I am watching SFDebris right now and he has a paetron setup along with doing a video for hire scheme.

 

I will leave ya with a question: Are you truly happy with the way the Workshop is right now, or is it just the best option available?

 

Time to go back to watching KOTOR. I will see you all in the morning.

Edited April 25, 2015 by freedom613

[Calamachus]

 

 

This doesn't make any sense. Skyrim Nexus would be profiting if my mod got a sale on the Steam Workshop.

 

Valve will definitely have to do a good job at making sure content is legitimate and not just derivatives of other work on the site.

It will be difficult and it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

 

If they decide to go back on all of this. My work will definitely go back on the Nexus.

It is just pretty ridiculous that I have only ever gotten one donation in more than 2 years of modding.

People act like the donation system is enough when no one ever really donates.

 

 

Nexus doesn't want to profit from your mods; that creates a market environment and not a community environment. Nexus is a community, not a marketplace. It's where we gather to share content and ideas and such about a game we're all passionate about. I don't come here to shop or do business. Same reason I come home from work and play games; I'm not at work, I'm not doing business. I don't like be sold to all the time especially not about things I do for fun and absolutely not when I'm trying to engage with other enthusiasts in my hobby.

 

Valve has already made it absolutely clear that the community needs to police itself. Read the FAQ. If you want to keep people from selling stolen stuff you have to go find them and catch them and report them. At which point the people who stole the content keep it, the thief keeps whatever money they made but the content is taken down. They may (or may not) get that account banned. You get nothing, absolutely nothing at all in any way. Nothing gets refunded to anyone. The best you get is that if in catching the thief you have to buy and download the mod to confirm it. If it's less than 24 hours from when you bought it you get the price of that mod refunded to you as credit to your steam wallet. That's it, that's all. Valve does not, will not and has confirmed they are not involved in policing content. They don't even confirm the mods work. You buy a mod, you have 24 hours to get a steam wallet refund. If someone files a DCMA takedown notice they honor it. If the person who got served can prove it's not legit they leave it up.

 

Donations.... a donation system sucks. I agree completely. The problem is that the people who don't donate are not going to pay either. I actually like the idea of a 'paid early access'. The content is up for 30/60 days for a buck or two, after which time it goes to the Nexus for free. I'd buy in on that. You can think of it as 'donations get you early access on content updates'. This avoids the position of saying 'I'm a professional and deserve paid for all access to my content' and instead says 'I put a lot of time into this, if you really like it you can pay me a little money to get early access to it when it gets updated'.

 

That also avoids the problem of the Nexus being viewed as a free advertising site for having your mod to point people to your paid work.

 

I'd recommend to anyone looking at this to try that first. See if a 'pay for early access' approach is sufficiently profitable and productive. If not you can always then move into a pay-only model.

 

Edited to add -

 

It also preseves the value of rewarding high-quality content and regular updates. It motivates the modder to keep updating and improving the mod and rewards them for doing so.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Calamachus

[Terramaris]

 

 

 

This doesn't make any sense. Skyrim Nexus would be profiting if my mod got a sale on the Steam Workshop.

 

Valve will definitely have to do a good job at making sure content is legitimate and not just derivatives of other work on the site.

It will be difficult and it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

 

If they decide to go back on all of this. My work will definitely go back on the Nexus.

It is just pretty ridiculous that I have only ever gotten one donation in more than 2 years of modding.

People act like the donation system is enough when no one ever really donates.

 

 

Nexus doesn't want to profit from your mods; that creates a market environment and not a community environment. Nexus is a community, not a marketplace. It's where we gather to share content and ideas and such about a game we're all passionate about. I don't come here to shop or do business. Same reason I come home from work and play games; I'm not at work, I'm not doing business. I don't like be sold to all the time especially not about things I do for fun and absolutely not when I'm trying to engage with other enthusiasts in my hobby.

 

Valve has already made it absolutely clear that the community needs to police itself. Read the FAQ. If you want to keep people from selling stolen stuff you have to go find them and catch them and report them. At which point the people who stole the content keep it, the thief keeps whatever money they made but the content is taken down. They may (or may not) get that account banned. You get nothing, absolutely nothing at all in any way. Nothing gets refunded to anyone. The best you get is that if in catching the thief you have to buy and download the mod to confirm it. If it's less than 24 hours from when you bought it you get the price of that mod refunded to you as credit to your steam wallet. That's it, that's all. Valve does not, will not and has confirmed they are not involved in policing content. They don't even confirm the mods work. You buy a mod, you have 24 hours to get a steam wallet refund. If someone files a DCMA takedown notice they honor it. If the person who got served can prove it's not legit they leave it up.

 

Donations.... a donation system sucks. I agree completely. The problem is that the people who don't donate are not going to pay either. I actually like the idea of a 'paid early access'. The content is up for 30/60 days for a buck or two, after which time it goes to the Nexus for free. I'd buy in on that. You can think of it as 'donations get you early access on content updates'. This avoids the position of saying 'I'm a professional and deserve paid for all access to my content' and instead says 'I put a lot of time into this, if you really like it you can pay me a little money to get early access to it when it gets updated'.

 

That also avoids the problem of the Nexus being viewed as a free advertising site for having your mod to point people to your paid work.

 

I'd recommend to anyone looking at this to try that first. See if a 'pay for early access' approach is sufficiently profitable and productive. If not you can always then move into a pay-only model.

 

I knew I said I was going to bed, but I saw this right after I saved my post and wanted to comment. I would support Nexus going early-access with the mods. The mods remain free, modders get money, and Valve gets nothing. It is a win-win-win for everyone (except Valve tehehehe).

 

What would you think about this Phendrix?

Edited April 25, 2015 by freedom613

[Caithe]

 

People need to stop acting like they are entitled to free mods. Publishing large works for free has always been a generosity modders have performed.

 

A yes, Valve the great and generous modder. I cant wait to pay him for all the improvement he has done to my game.

[phenderix]

You know what guys. I will remain Nexus exclusive, you guys are right. Congrats for convincing me :)

[Calamachus]

You know what guys. I will remain Nexus exclusive, you guys are right. Congrats for convincing me :smile:

 

Ugh. Not trying to convince you of anything but I won't say I'm sad to hear it.

 

I'd still recommend bringing some of these ideas up to the Nexus folks - how to deal with mods that seem like adverts to paid mods. Also the idea of a fee for early access to mods instead of a 'donate' option.

[Terramaris]

You know what guys. I will remain Nexus exclusive, you guys are right. Congrats for convincing me :smile:

I am glad to hear you changed your mind. I donated the price of what you were going to charge on the Workshop to you. Ain't much, but I hope others follow my lead (and I seriously need to go to bed, curse Valve for making this controversy so horrible yet interesting to watch... like a car crash I say.).

 

Edit: My phone didn't ding like it usually does when I make a transaction, so if you didn't receive it let me know. Paypal Receipt said it worked fine though.

 

Edit 2: Just dinged five minutes after the fact. Guess Paypal is slow today.

Edited April 25, 2015 by freedom613