Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[Draugas]

In response to post #24607884. #24609519 is also a reply to the same post.

Draugas wrote:

bblair0099 wrote: Most people don't understand how this will affect future games like say Fallout 4, if it even happens now.

Yep. If this is even moderately successful, prepare to pay for Modding Tools DLC and Workshop only release permission behind payments.

[Mindprobe24]

In response to post #24607884. #24609519, #24609764 are all replies on the same post.

Draugas wrote:

bblair0099 wrote: Most people don't understand how this will affect future games like say Fallout 4, if it even happens now.

Draugas wrote: Yep. If this is even moderately successful, prepare to pay for Modding Tools DLC and Workshop only release permission behind payments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbWr0zO7Ac

[xAsura]

In response to post #24606579. #24606694 is also a reply to the same post.

xAsura wrote:

CiderMuffin wrote: Don't forget the refund period is only 24 hours.

Ah yes the 24 hour time frame for refunds. For most mods that simply isn't enough time to judge them much less figure out if they break your game or not. Not to mention what happens when a mod author decides he/she doesn't feel like supporting their mod and it becomes outdated or unfinished(which could happen very quickly after purchasing). Paid mods really go against the very nature of modding at least for Bethesda's games where you have a hundred or more mods running at any given time.

[mALX1]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.



Edited April 24, 2015 by mALX1

[zanity]

In response to post #24608314. #24608419, #24608604, #24608679, #24608689, #24608739 are all replies on the same post.

mineturtule wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: Do people not understand Legal reasons?

mineturtule wrote: What legal reason is there to say "free mods free mods" then taking money from the selling of the mods? I think that's called playing the ends against the middle.Or simply being two faced.

bigdeano89 wrote: More to the point, does NO ONE read anything other than bolded text? Dark0ne himself responds ON THAT REDDIT POST. I'm not even going to paste the info back again, I have done that half a dozen times so far. Go and read it yourself please.

Draugas wrote: I've seen that theres the option for the modder to list people who helped them create the mod so they get a portion of the money from sales. So Nexus doesn't get a portion of all sales, but gets something if the modder lists them.

IMO I don't see a problem with this (not that I'm supporting anything Valvthesda is doing with paid mods, I'm not). If a modder wants to tip Nexus to show support, I'm for it.

I think I saw it comes out of Valvthesda's cut, not the modder's, which is even better if true.

But to reiterate, I don't support the entire scheme in any way, shape or form. I'm afraid Valvthesda will continue this no matter how much noise users make, however.

CiderMuffin wrote: It's a DONATION, he isn't forcing modders to credit the Nexus as a source provider the mod makers are doing that themselves. He also stated NUMEROUS TIMES that he isn't opposed to the idea of modders making money off of their work it's just not his vision for the Nexus.

Don't listen to Chesko as they are having a temper tantrum because they messed up and want to make others suffer.

Formally working with Valve and Bethesda when Valve and Bethesda are involved in such despicable acts is the worst idea possible. At a time like this, clean hands are ESSENTIAL. Remember, anyone has the right to help distribute Skyrim mods provided for FREE, so no-one is forced to work with Bethesda.

Sadly, as the owner of Valve knows, money corrupts- so one simply has to accumulate enough money to solve all business issues via financial corruption. Valve believes gamers are stupid enough to cheer mega-rich entities that attempt to keep gaming in the equivalent of the lawless 'wild west'- look how hard Valve fought to prevent Steam sales falling under EU laws on distance selling and consumer protection rights. Valve LOST, but the fact that Valve argued in court that digital game distribution companies are "ABOVE THE LAW" shows the mindset of these entities.

Zenimax had the perfect opportunity to FRESH START paid modding with Fallout 4- ensuring that from the beginning every correct legal mechanism was in place, and that would be commercial modders were completely educated in their legal responsibilities. Many would have been saddened at Fallout 4 modding going commercial, BUT it would be a completely reasonable experiment for Zenimax with ZERO impact on pre-existing situations.

Introducing paid modding for Skyrim is, by contrast, unforgivable. It is Valve attempting to increase the current lawless wild-west of modding to the power infinity, so it can leech off the commercial chaos like a money vampire. It is like an old 'gold rush' where tens of thousands of young men are 'invited' to waste their lives rainbow chasing while the mining giants wait in the wings to pick up the pieces for certain profit.

Charging for Skyrim mods is like a host charging dinner guests because "people deserve to make money from their time in the kitchen'. You want to make money from cooking? Go work in a restaurant. It is the same with software. The 'rules' of modding arose precisely because the work was intended to be offered for 'free'. When payment is involved, the Law states that the rules MUST change.

Nexus should explicitly join with everyone else to put pressure on Zenimax to reverse the decision over paid Skyrim mods. Zenimax should be informed, in the clearest terms, that paid software of ANY type comes with strict legal requirements, and if Zenimax takes the bigger part of the mod cost, zenimax carries full legal responsibility to ensure all necessary laws are met.

Such actions would assist Zenimax's project for paid Fallout 4 mods to meet required legal standards from the very beginning, and thus maybe help create a whole new type of modding community. Indeed, Zenimax could take responsibility for PURCHASING emerging fundamental Fallout 4 mod resources, and offer those resources for free (legally) to Fallout 4 paid end-user mod authors.

[hangman04]

In response to post #24608469. #24608589 is also a reply to the same post.

hangman04 wrote:

CiderMuffin wrote: If it was 75% then Bethesda and valve wouldn't make much making the practice a pretty terrible idea (though it's already a very terrible idea)

Now if it was something like 33% split between Valve, Bethesda and the Mod maker that way everyone earns a fair share then that would've been better but the idea is still terrible as evidence with Chesko using assets they didn't get permission to sell.

asset stealing was always an issue, but people hardly care since there weren't any money involved imo.

"If it was 75% then Bethesda and valve wouldn't make much making the practice a pretty terrible idea (though it's already a very terrible idea)"

well maybe but you are forgetting they don't get anything from modding atm and also forgetting that this isn't only about Skyrim... the framework will be implemented to the other games that support modding, and even though the but-hurt and quit-rage that we see around, this system will get traction, it's just a matter before people get used to the idea. Also it is possible that small studios will negotiate those %, given to meet some dlc quality standards and some beth peer review. i am sure this will open a new set of opportunities....

why did u think that darkzone added donation systems? imo, so that nexus won't loose modders who would expect to make a buck, as the donation system really works (same system a lot of software companies use, and also very common on google play). this move from valve kinda hurt nexus anyway, since there will be modders ( and probably good ones) who will condition($) the use of their modes, and you won't find them here. You may hate them but if the content they provide worth the cents one may as well pay for it....

[A18718]

Wow. Two things here. First I think this is a ridiculous way for Bethesda to cash in on their buggy games. To abuse the modding community. Sorry but I do not want to give 5-10 dollars for an Unofficial patch when about 4-8 of the 10 dollars is going to the company that couldn't even fix the game and the other 2 wont go to the author unless he gets like a hundred dollars for valve to pay out. A very cheap and stupid thing for Bethesda to do. They're going to kill the modding community on Steam (Like there really was one to begin with...)

 

Second, this seems like a dumb idea for people to steal mods from here and put them there. Yes I know what the post said about people being pants on head stupid but never underestimate just how stupid someone can be. Even if they're not successful this is going to cause a lot of problems. The Steam Workshop is going to become nonexistent, people will come here and not stay in a place where they have to pay for stuff. Honestly why pay for something on steam workshop when you can get it here?

 

Nice job Valve, you just destroyed your workshop. *Clap Clap*

Good job Nexus, you're going to get a lot more registrations here. These forums are going to become a hell of a lot more active.

 

P.S: I wish I could get to that private mod author forums, only got like 450/1000 Unique Downloads required :(

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609974 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.

Dark0ne wrote:

The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.

I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past.

I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.

Actually, having read that sentence back a few times to myself....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.

At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.

All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.

I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business. Edited April 24, 2015 by phantompally76

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them with the other hand, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.

Actually, having read that sentence back a few times....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.

At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.

All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.

I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business.

The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.

I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past. Edited April 24, 2015 by Dark0ne

[mALX1]

In response to post #24608314. #24608419, #24608604, #24608679, #24608689, #24608739, #24609864 are all replies on the same post.

mineturtule wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: Do people not understand Legal reasons?

mineturtule wrote: What legal reason is there to say "free mods free mods" then taking money from the selling of the mods? I think that's called playing the ends against the middle.Or simply being two faced.

bigdeano89 wrote: More to the point, does NO ONE read anything other than bolded text? Dark0ne himself responds ON THAT REDDIT POST. I'm not even going to paste the info back again, I have done that half a dozen times so far. Go and read it yourself please.

Draugas wrote: I've seen that theres the option for the modder to list people who helped them create the mod so they get a portion of the money from sales. So Nexus doesn't get a portion of all sales, but gets something if the modder lists them.

IMO I don't see a problem with this (not that I'm supporting anything Valvthesda is doing with paid mods, I'm not). If a modder wants to tip Nexus to show support, I'm for it.

I think I saw it comes out of Valvthesda's cut, not the modder's, which is even better if true.

But to reiterate, I don't support the entire scheme in any way, shape or form. I'm afraid Valvthesda will continue this no matter how much noise users make, however.

CiderMuffin wrote: It's a DONATION, he isn't forcing modders to credit the Nexus as a source provider the mod makers are doing that themselves. He also stated NUMEROUS TIMES that he isn't opposed to the idea of modders making money off of their work it's just not his vision for the Nexus.

Don't listen to Chesko as they are having a temper tantrum because they messed up and want to make others suffer.

zanity wrote: Formally working with Valve and Bethesda when Valve and Bethesda are involved in such despicable acts is the worst idea possible. At a time like this, clean hands are ESSENTIAL. Remember, anyone has the right to help distribute Skyrim mods provided for FREE, so no-one is forced to work with Bethesda.

Sadly, as the owner of Valve knows, money corrupts- so one simply has to accumulate enough money to solve all business issues via financial corruption. Valve believes gamers are stupid enough to cheer mega-rich entities that attempt to keep gaming in the equivalent of the lawless 'wild west'- look how hard Valve fought to prevent Steam sales falling under EU laws on distance selling and consumer protection rights. Valve LOST, but the fact that Valve argued in court that digital game distribution companies are "ABOVE THE LAW" shows the mindset of these entities.

Zenimax had the perfect opportunity to FRESH START paid modding with Fallout 4- ensuring that from the beginning every correct legal mechanism was in place, and that would be commercial modders were completely educated in their legal responsibilities. Many would have been saddened at Fallout 4 modding going commercial, BUT it would be a completely reasonable experiment for Zenimax with ZERO impact on pre-existing situations.

Introducing paid modding for Skyrim is, by contrast, unforgivable. It is Valve attempting to increase the current lawless wild-west of modding to the power infinity, so it can leech off the commercial chaos like a money vampire. It is like an old 'gold rush' where tens of thousands of young men are 'invited' to waste their lives rainbow chasing while the mining giants wait in the wings to pick up the pieces for certain profit.

Charging for Skyrim mods is like a host charging dinner guests because "people deserve to make money from their time in the kitchen'. You want to make money from cooking? Go work in a restaurant. It is the same with software. The 'rules' of modding arose precisely because the work was intended to be offered for 'free'. When payment is involved, the Law states that the rules MUST change.

Nexus should explicitly join with everyone else to put pressure on Zenimax to reverse the decision over paid Skyrim mods. Zenimax should be informed, in the clearest terms, that paid software of ANY type comes with strict legal requirements, and if Zenimax takes the bigger part of the mod cost, zenimax carries full legal responsibility to ensure all necessary laws are met.

Such actions would assist Zenimax's project for paid Fallout 4 mods to meet required legal standards from the very beginning, and thus maybe help create a whole new type of modding community. Indeed, Zenimax could take responsibility for PURCHASING emerging fundamental Fallout 4 mod resources, and offer those resources for free (legally) to Fallout 4 paid end-user mod authors.

valvthesda, lol! You said it true though, there is no stopping this snowball rolling we need to just make sure it doesn't Steamroll Nexus down in its path.