Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[SjoertJansen]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

@mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes. Edited April 26, 2015 by SjoertJansen

[debralou2002]

I whole heartedly agree with The Dark One. Support the mod author's and stop bullying them. They have given as extended gameplay, easier to use access within our games, more choices and many other things. I understand there are people who don't believe in paying for anything and yet believe they should be paid. I also understand restricted cash flow but I do believe that mod author's have a right to be paid as well as recognized for their work. If you enjoy the mod and use it please don't bully. This in itself will discourage mod author's and we don't want that.

Again I say support them. Let them know that in this turbulent time that you still appreciate their work.

[Woobisan]

Horse Armor ver3.0. That is all.

[shawnhowe]

Well it wad inevitable, big money sees 7 million downloads of a single mod and think if I could just get 3 dollars each for that I could Get that jeweled ivory butt scratcher I always wanted. While I appreciate the hard work modders put into their work i personally cannot afford to pay them all for it even though I wish I could. But I will not pay steam and bethsada another dime. I think they have made quite enough already, they're just too greedy. I have already unsubscribed to all mods from the site and will be unsubscribing from them as well. I guess my gaming days are coming to an end, hope its nice outside. peace all.

[greggorypeccary]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444 is also a reply to the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #24667554. #24668024, #24668224, #24668354, #24673899, #24674124, #24678949 are all replies on the same post.

Moksha8088 wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: Well based upon the current verbage of the TOS, yes.

The new version of Wet & Cold is now the property of Steam. Even if that mod gets pulled (which it looks like it will be) for copyright infringement, it still belongs to Steam.

This is precisely what happened with Chesko's mods. Steam pulled Art of the Catch for Copyright, and when he decided he was done with Steam, he was informed that Arissa 2.0 would not be taken down, because it's no longer his to remove or redistribute. He DID manage to hide it, however, before he took his ball and went home.

That's what absolutely none of the mod authors who got conned into this or a single one of the proponents of paid modding have figured out yet. When you upload a paid mod, it ceases to be your mod. Steam can pull it down at will. They can alter the files at will. And there's nothing the mod authors can do about it.

And here's the real kicker; something EVERYONE needs to understand, about ANY corporation. Steam reserves the right to change their terms at any time, even the terms of a legally binding contract. There's nothing preventing them from withholding funds or stopping payment altogether to mod authors. There's nothing preventing them combining a mod's files with ANOTHER mod's files, and selling them as a new mod bundle. Once the mod author clicks "Agree" and "Upload", Steam can do whatever the hell they want with the mod author's files. And the mod authors have absolutely no legal foot to stand on.

Chesko found this out, and it caused him to ragequit.

Isoku is currently finding this out, and he's about to lose the rights to his bread and butter mod in its latest form.

Arthmoor has found this out, and based on the very few posts he has made since the 23rd, he is NOT happy with Valve or with the Workshop.

Let that soak in. Those are three of the top modders in the entire community. They've bought in to a CLASSIC confidence grift. And they got swindled.

Yes, they're going to get some money. And hopefully that will be some balm on their wounds. But they've lost a LOT of credibility and respect within the modding community. More importantly, they've lost the rights to their work. That probably hasn't even hit them yet. But it will.

popcorn71 wrote: I didn't know Arthmoor was involved in any if this. I would have thought he of all people would know better then to get mixed up in this...

phantompally76 wrote: Oh he's been hinting for years and years that he thinks he deserves compensation for modding. I knew he'd be one of the first to charge for mods.

If I'm honest, I'm surprised all the unofficial patches weren't included in the Sellout, er, I mean Rollout Bundle. I don't use them myself, because they break more than they fix, but I know a LOT of people do, and something like that would have caused the community to implode.

Moksha8088 wrote: Selling mods as a bundle?

So once Steam Workshop owns the Mod, does that mean they will support or develop the mod further from that point?

Can end users affected by this be part of a class action law suit?

mkess wrote: As I said before, distribution rights are very expensive, and you have to calculate the hours you worked on them into it.

They have been robbed. By st"EA"m. in open daylight.

If you take the "normal" income of a developer, take the sum BEFORE taxes, and company costs, multiply them with the hours you worked at the project.

That is the sum, you have to name, to be paid UP FRONT, for the exclusive distribution rights ONLY. the 25% comes afterward. No wonder st"EA"m must think that we all are "useful fools".

IF the EX-3rd party DLC authors are lucky, they can use their pre-workshop mod here on the nexus, as a base for their next mod patch, without getting sued from steam. But it's more likely, they will never ever mod again, because st"EA"m ruined their motivation, and their hobby.

And of course will these mods be all taken out next week. These new exploiting model from steam are basicly all "lawsuits to happen". There is no way, they can get all rights, or all people involved agreeing with them. Some will not agree on principle.

St"EA"m and Zeni$max do not understand the motivation of some modders, making a little better world, giving something back to the mankind in generell, to lighten up their karma a bit, or simply to master something. These people, as working like slaves for their hobby, do not care about money. Another reason st"EA"m is able to fool them, and more important, rob them their WORK, leaving NOTHING but rubble in their wake.

How does this really help modding, hm?


So I'm off, Playing some new detected skyrim mod.

Oh, and don't forget to deactivate the update function on st"EA"m. Or maybe a new patch forbids the use of free mods ....

WightMage wrote: This is exactly the case.

Oh, and don't forget to deactivate the update function on st"EA"m. Or maybe a new patch forbids the use of free mods ....

I don't see that option for ANY of my steam games anymore, just

"Always keep this game up to date"
"Only update this game when I launch it"
"High-Priority - Always update this game before others"

The option to NOT updates is gone in my client

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

[twhelan]

@TrevorTheElder

 

I must disagree with your first statement. Dark0ne is probably the least played of all.

He is obviously well informed of the circumstances of late, as his post is the most well-written and thought-out I have read. Give him the credit he is due.

 

I have to agree somewhat with your second statement. It saddens me to say that some well-known, brilliant, and up until a couple days ago, much loved mod-makers within this community appear to have been dupped into something entirely untoward by the inevitable and unscrupulous evolution of "business". I empathize with them greatly.

 

Unfortunately however, this is but a fraction of the tragedy these few have experienced due to these events. The real tragedy is the the portion of the community who have, in their small-minded knee-jerk reaction sort of way, not only abandoned, but condemned and vilified them. Then due to an off-hand remark from one such brilliant mod-maker, this segment feels justified in re-directed their vitriolic torrent of verbal diarhea toward the people who have provided them the forum for their community. I am personally disgusted and beside myself with rage at this portion of the community. Shame on all of you!

 

Bethesda and Valve are profitable businesses. That is really all that need be said, so I find myself in no position but to concur with the remainder of your post. DO NOT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS! It is simply the ONLY way ANYONE can wield their influence.

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #24677494. #24677549, #24677769, #24677774, #24680864, #24681269, #24682129, #24683249 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Now you are just scaremongering, take the tinfoil hat off for the love of God.

sunshinenbrick wrote: If we just sit by and don't do anything I fear he will be right. Google: Nouriel Roubini

digitaltrucker wrote: Not at all, what I stated is exactly what has happened in PC gaming and software as a whole in the past decade.

Mods will be absolutely no different than any other software.

The only reason this hasn't happened in modding before now is that until the last few years modding was largely under the radar.

The only way my above scenario will not play out is if the game manufacturers themselves choose not to make it happen. The games are ultimately their product.

Psijonica wrote: Funny video but Nexus is not the good guy in this situation. But if you want to say that they Knights represent the community in general I am ok with that. At least I can still laugh ;D

I'm so happy to see this because these kids today don't understand the real world and how the corporations are just waiting to pounce. Once they see that there is money in mods the sharks will come. The consequences and ramifications of this are going to ripple and it will take a few years but eveybody in the gaming business is watching what happens.

If we don't fight to stop this, if we don't organize then the, the corporations will steal this all. Once they do that, there will be nothing left.

Forget about a free CK in FO4 or the next Elder Scrolls game. You'll have to buy it or they licence it out for a large amount of money.

It is not just free mods that are at risk... it is free modding.

Dark0ne stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not close to a million each year) if Pay-for-Mods becomes big as it looks like it will. The new bread of modders are just rolling over and accepting this. SOPA will be next once the Corporations see how easy this take over was. 3-5 years and SOPA will be law. That is my prediction now.

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265

DaVincix wrote: "The games are ultimately their product."

Exactly. I bet many gamers still believe they own a game.
What they pay for is the right to use a software-copy.

I a developer-company or the overall owner/decider of a game-product is going to disable any modding-option for a respective game, they can, legally.

The "only" issue for them is the reaction of the by them known modding-scene/game-community, which are part of their customers.

This said, i'm, rather was, a highly active public modder for many years (another game genre), and i'm pro free modding and free distribution, of course. Nonetheless, realities cannot be ignored.

DaVincix wrote: " I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265 "

@ Psijonica

... thanks for this, and the link to Emma's point on Beth's forum.


Couldn't stress more my support for Emma's expressed opinion: Money ( in this relation and in the last consquence: greed ) is the Poison for the modding-scene and its community. It'll destroy the spirit of modding and sharing.

But, let's face it (again): We are all dependent on the decisions of the gaming-industry. What's the gaming-industry? Real people ... humans, which decide about the game-business-concepts.

Psijonica wrote: @ DaVincix

I agree with you completely. Not only do they think they own the game but some time during the height of the Oblivion craze moddders started believing that they owned their mods. As Emma said herself and like I have been saying for years on my blogs and in forums, modders don't own anything. This generation of Skyrim modders are just rude and spoiled children and when they grow and realize what has really happened here then they will all cry foul but it will be too late. I think it is already too late. And so does Emma.

I have know Emma for many years. I have shared laughs and tears through our private conversations. I have been a member of her forum since she released Vilja for Oblivion. Obviously she is very disturbed with what is going on with this new generation of Skyrim modders. Disgusted is really a more accurate word. Which is why she is so upset to see what has happened.

I know because Emma has told me that she has been reduced to tears by many of the rude comments about her mod and her voice. These children are really mean. And that is why I am ready to give up. Why should I care any more... I don't think I do.

It is an end of an era and like Emma I think I am just going to go back to her forum and hide there and watch the chaos destroy what I was a part of, a great community that respected each other. That is all gone now... it will never be the same again.

Psijonica

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

He's made his own opinions clear SEVERAL times, you continue to CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR HIM.
If you don't trust Dark0ne, then what are you doing on his website downloading FREE MODS, using a FREE ACCOUNT?

Why not go to a Mod Website that you "Trust" and download mods from there, instead of staying here on a website you don't trust, with a CEO you don't trust?

What a hypocrite you look like, you don't trust Dark0ne, but you freely use his site with a FREE ACCOUNT, and download FREE MODS.

Hypocrite much?
Edited April 26, 2015 by HadToRegister

[Harbringe]

@ SunShineBrick : I can answer your question regarding the SDK and what it was like at the beginning .

 

Ok first it was a game called Arena which was their (Bethesda) first attempt at trying out an open world concept game , but it was very much a different beast than the first person type game we are used to , but still working on the whole open world concept. Then came Daggerfall again open world concept and this time first person , problem was it was probably one of the glitchiest games ever made , a real nightmare to just even get working and not a commercial success , but it did show elements of future potential like modding . Then comes Morrowind , now this really was a make or break moment for Bethesda , if it had failed I doubt history would be as it is. In Morrowind the basic idea was that it was going to be an open world game that thru the aspect of modding you the player could add value (playability) thru modding . This was the hook they were using to try and get people interested in their product and I for one (having seen that potential) in Daggerfall took the leap . It was that early core of people like me who in those days were really breaking the ground for what Bethesda was to become. Back then you had to convince people that this game (Morrowind) really was a revolutionary development in what gaming was and what it could be. But the main selling point was that thru modding it was a value add game . And to be honest I think that is what they are losing sight of , because this value add has become something they are taking for granted and we saw the first example of that in ESO . A game where they presumed that because it was ElderScrolls players would automatically throw their money at it and that didn't happen , why, because at price of game + monthly 15$ fee + ingame store your no longer talking about a value add gaming experience and the fanatic core they take for granted balked.

 

As for the community at the start it was totally help out with what you can , cause it was all so new and no one had any expectations that it was gonna work out , not even Bethesda. They were scared and betting their existance on its success.