Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over. Edited April 26, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[markdunck]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

[TheknightofRand]

In response to post #24677494. #24677549, #24677769, #24677774, #24680864, #24681269, #24682129, #24683249, #24684669, #24685184, #24685649 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Now you are just scaremongering, take the tinfoil hat off for the love of God.

sunshinenbrick wrote: If we just sit by and don't do anything I fear he will be right. Google: Nouriel Roubini

digitaltrucker wrote: Not at all, what I stated is exactly what has happened in PC gaming and software as a whole in the past decade.

Mods will be absolutely no different than any other software.

The only reason this hasn't happened in modding before now is that until the last few years modding was largely under the radar.

The only way my above scenario will not play out is if the game manufacturers themselves choose not to make it happen. The games are ultimately their product.

Psijonica wrote: Funny video but Nexus is not the good guy in this situation. But if you want to say that they Knights represent the community in general I am ok with that. At least I can still laugh ;D

I'm so happy to see this because these kids today don't understand the real world and how the corporations are just waiting to pounce. Once they see that there is money in mods the sharks will come. The consequences and ramifications of this are going to ripple and it will take a few years but eveybody in the gaming business is watching what happens.

If we don't fight to stop this, if we don't organize then the, the corporations will steal this all. Once they do that, there will be nothing left.

Forget about a free CK in FO4 or the next Elder Scrolls game. You'll have to buy it or they licence it out for a large amount of money.

It is not just free mods that are at risk... it is free modding.

Dark0ne stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not close to a million each year) if Pay-for-Mods becomes big as it looks like it will. The new bread of modders are just rolling over and accepting this. SOPA will be next once the Corporations see how easy this take over was. 3-5 years and SOPA will be law. That is my prediction now.

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265

DaVincix wrote: "The games are ultimately their product."

Exactly. I bet many gamers still believe they own a game.
What they pay for is the right to use a software-copy.

I a developer-company or the overall owner/decider of a game-product is going to disable any modding-option for a respective game, they can, legally.

The "only" issue for them is the reaction of the by them known modding-scene/game-community, which are part of their customers.

This said, i'm, rather was, a highly active public modder for many years (another game genre), and i'm pro free modding and free distribution, of course. Nonetheless, realities cannot be ignored.

DaVincix wrote: " I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265 "

@ Psijonica

... thanks for this, and the link to Emma's point on Beth's forum.


Couldn't stress more my support for Emma's expressed opinion: Money ( in this relation and in the last consquence: greed ) is the Poison for the modding-scene and its community. It'll destroy the spirit of modding and sharing.

But, let's face it (again): We are all dependent on the decisions of the gaming-industry. What's the gaming-industry? Real people ... humans, which decide about the game-business-concepts.

Psijonica wrote: @ DaVincix

I agree with you completely. Not only do they think they own the game but some time during the height of the Oblivion craze moddders started believing that they owned their mods. As Emma said herself and like I have been saying for years on my blogs and in forums, modders don't own anything. This generation of Skyrim modders are just rude and spoiled children and when they grow and realize what has really happened here then they will all cry foul but it will be too late. I think it is already too late. And so does Emma.

I have know Emma for many years. I have shared laughs and tears through our private conversations. I have been a member of her forum since she released Vilja for Oblivion. Obviously she is very disturbed with what is going on with this new generation of Skyrim modders. Disgusted is really a more accurate word. Which is why she is so upset to see what has happened.

I know because Emma has told me that she has been reduced to tears by many of the rude comments about her mod and her voice. These children are really mean. And that is why I am ready to give up. Why should I care any more... I don't think I do.

It is an end of an era and like Emma I think I am just going to go back to her forum and hide there and watch the chaos destroy what I was a part of, a great community that respected each other. That is all gone now... it will never be the same again.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

He's made his own opinions clear SEVERAL times, you continue to CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR HIM.
If you don't trust Dark0ne, then what are you doing on his website downloading FREE MODS, using a FREE ACCOUNT?

Why not go to a Mod Website that you "Trust" and download mods from there, instead of staying here on a website you don't trust, with a CEO you don't trust?

What a hypocrite you look like, you don't trust Dark0ne, but you freely use his site with a FREE ACCOUNT, and download FREE MODS.

Hypocrite much?

akkalat85 wrote: @bigdeano89: He's not fear mongering at all. People on the workshop forums have already posted torrent links for the paid bundle. So yes it's really happening right now. Being a programmer myself, I fear for the future of this community with regards to piracy of paid mods.

Honestly, what in the world would make you think this wouldn't happen? You really thought people weren't going to pirate paid mods? Is this your first time on the internet?

This effects everyone and sticking your fingers in your ears and calling people fear mongers is only adding fuel to an already raging inferno.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I've seen the problems that Dark0ne and the team has faced over the past few years... Valvesda seem to have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.

It's about respect and there seems to be less and less of that around these days.

The problem with the privacy rational is that it is dependent on the conclusion that an author either A) give all of their creation away for free or B) charge and be pirated. The threat is basically give it to us or we will take it and that is wrong. Also while you own a copy of the game or a license, hence the licensing agreement you often enter into. authors do own their mods in a property sense based on both development and labor theory of property, as well as personhood theory.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24677494. #24677549, #24677769, #24677774, #24680864, #24681269, #24682129, #24683249, #24684669, #24685184, #24685649, #24686189 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Now you are just scaremongering, take the tinfoil hat off for the love of God.

sunshinenbrick wrote: If we just sit by and don't do anything I fear he will be right. Google: Nouriel Roubini

digitaltrucker wrote: Not at all, what I stated is exactly what has happened in PC gaming and software as a whole in the past decade.

Mods will be absolutely no different than any other software.

The only reason this hasn't happened in modding before now is that until the last few years modding was largely under the radar.

The only way my above scenario will not play out is if the game manufacturers themselves choose not to make it happen. The games are ultimately their product.

Psijonica wrote: Funny video but Nexus is not the good guy in this situation. But if you want to say that they Knights represent the community in general I am ok with that. At least I can still laugh ;D

I'm so happy to see this because these kids today don't understand the real world and how the corporations are just waiting to pounce. Once they see that there is money in mods the sharks will come. The consequences and ramifications of this are going to ripple and it will take a few years but eveybody in the gaming business is watching what happens.

If we don't fight to stop this, if we don't organize then the, the corporations will steal this all. Once they do that, there will be nothing left.

Forget about a free CK in FO4 or the next Elder Scrolls game. You'll have to buy it or they licence it out for a large amount of money.

It is not just free mods that are at risk... it is free modding.

Dark0ne stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not close to a million each year) if Pay-for-Mods becomes big as it looks like it will. The new bread of modders are just rolling over and accepting this. SOPA will be next once the Corporations see how easy this take over was. 3-5 years and SOPA will be law. That is my prediction now.

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265

DaVincix wrote: "The games are ultimately their product."

Exactly. I bet many gamers still believe they own a game.
What they pay for is the right to use a software-copy.

I a developer-company or the overall owner/decider of a game-product is going to disable any modding-option for a respective game, they can, legally.

The "only" issue for them is the reaction of the by them known modding-scene/game-community, which are part of their customers.

This said, i'm, rather was, a highly active public modder for many years (another game genre), and i'm pro free modding and free distribution, of course. Nonetheless, realities cannot be ignored.

DaVincix wrote: " I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265 "

@ Psijonica

... thanks for this, and the link to Emma's point on Beth's forum.


Couldn't stress more my support for Emma's expressed opinion: Money ( in this relation and in the last consquence: greed ) is the Poison for the modding-scene and its community. It'll destroy the spirit of modding and sharing.

But, let's face it (again): We are all dependent on the decisions of the gaming-industry. What's the gaming-industry? Real people ... humans, which decide about the game-business-concepts.

Psijonica wrote: @ DaVincix

I agree with you completely. Not only do they think they own the game but some time during the height of the Oblivion craze moddders started believing that they owned their mods. As Emma said herself and like I have been saying for years on my blogs and in forums, modders don't own anything. This generation of Skyrim modders are just rude and spoiled children and when they grow and realize what has really happened here then they will all cry foul but it will be too late. I think it is already too late. And so does Emma.

I have know Emma for many years. I have shared laughs and tears through our private conversations. I have been a member of her forum since she released Vilja for Oblivion. Obviously she is very disturbed with what is going on with this new generation of Skyrim modders. Disgusted is really a more accurate word. Which is why she is so upset to see what has happened.

I know because Emma has told me that she has been reduced to tears by many of the rude comments about her mod and her voice. These children are really mean. And that is why I am ready to give up. Why should I care any more... I don't think I do.

It is an end of an era and like Emma I think I am just going to go back to her forum and hide there and watch the chaos destroy what I was a part of, a great community that respected each other. That is all gone now... it will never be the same again.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

He's made his own opinions clear SEVERAL times, you continue to CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR HIM.
If you don't trust Dark0ne, then what are you doing on his website downloading FREE MODS, using a FREE ACCOUNT?

Why not go to a Mod Website that you "Trust" and download mods from there, instead of staying here on a website you don't trust, with a CEO you don't trust?

What a hypocrite you look like, you don't trust Dark0ne, but you freely use his site with a FREE ACCOUNT, and download FREE MODS.

Hypocrite much?

akkalat85 wrote: @bigdeano89: He's not fear mongering at all. People on the workshop forums have already posted torrent links for the paid bundle. So yes it's really happening right now. Being a programmer myself, I fear for the future of this community with regards to piracy of paid mods.

Honestly, what in the world would make you think this wouldn't happen? You really thought people weren't going to pirate paid mods? Is this your first time on the internet?

This effects everyone and sticking your fingers in your ears and calling people fear mongers is only adding fuel to an already raging inferno.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I've seen the problems that Dark0ne and the team has faced over the past few years... Valvesda seem to have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.

It's about respect and there seems to be less and less of that around these days.

TheknightofRand wrote: The problem with the privacy rational is that it is dependent on the conclusion that an author either A) give all of their creation away for free or B) charge and be pirated. The threat is basically give it to us or we will take it and that is wrong. Also while you own a copy of the game or a license, hence the licensing agreement you often enter into. authors do own their mods in a property sense based on both development and labor theory of property, as well as personhood theory.

Yes, intellectual property is being walked all over with this.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24685929.

harhar1011 wrote:

That smells of PR and I do not believe they will chnage unless its bad for THEM too.

However there is hope in the fact that they are even bothering to talk to us, unlike some game developers I could mention.

:P

[AlfredTheUnprepared]

In response to post #24685929. #24686389 is also a reply to the same post.

harhar1011 wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: That smells of PR and I do not believe they will chnage unless its bad for THEM too.

However there is hope in the fact that they are even bothering to talk to us, unlike some game developers I could mention.

:P

You're right, it does smell of PR, but here's the thing-if it's bad for us, it is bad for them, because then we just say "screw you" and take our business elsewhere.

And can I just say that I feel this has the makings for a movie where a brave group of modders resist corporations and risk their lives to distribute their creations?

Like Pirate Radio, but with mods.

Anyway, companies always get nervous about bad press. We give them enough bad press, they'll back off.

Let it never be said that we don't know how to raise a ruckus.

[Elta1]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

SjoertJansen wrote: @mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes.

Wow... I think that is very cool. Trying to make a system more on promoting donation by not requiring it. I think he is on to something.

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #24677494. #24677549, #24677769, #24677774, #24680864, #24681269, #24682129, #24683249, #24684669, #24685184, #24685649, #24686189, #24686279 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Now you are just scaremongering, take the tinfoil hat off for the love of God.

sunshinenbrick wrote: If we just sit by and don't do anything I fear he will be right. Google: Nouriel Roubini

digitaltrucker wrote: Not at all, what I stated is exactly what has happened in PC gaming and software as a whole in the past decade.

Mods will be absolutely no different than any other software.

The only reason this hasn't happened in modding before now is that until the last few years modding was largely under the radar.

The only way my above scenario will not play out is if the game manufacturers themselves choose not to make it happen. The games are ultimately their product.

Psijonica wrote: Funny video but Nexus is not the good guy in this situation. But if you want to say that they Knights represent the community in general I am ok with that. At least I can still laugh ;D

I'm so happy to see this because these kids today don't understand the real world and how the corporations are just waiting to pounce. Once they see that there is money in mods the sharks will come. The consequences and ramifications of this are going to ripple and it will take a few years but eveybody in the gaming business is watching what happens.

If we don't fight to stop this, if we don't organize then the, the corporations will steal this all. Once they do that, there will be nothing left.

Forget about a free CK in FO4 or the next Elder Scrolls game. You'll have to buy it or they licence it out for a large amount of money.

It is not just free mods that are at risk... it is free modding.

Dark0ne stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not close to a million each year) if Pay-for-Mods becomes big as it looks like it will. The new bread of modders are just rolling over and accepting this. SOPA will be next once the Corporations see how easy this take over was. 3-5 years and SOPA will be law. That is my prediction now.

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265

DaVincix wrote: "The games are ultimately their product."

Exactly. I bet many gamers still believe they own a game.
What they pay for is the right to use a software-copy.

I a developer-company or the overall owner/decider of a game-product is going to disable any modding-option for a respective game, they can, legally.

The "only" issue for them is the reaction of the by them known modding-scene/game-community, which are part of their customers.

This said, i'm, rather was, a highly active public modder for many years (another game genre), and i'm pro free modding and free distribution, of course. Nonetheless, realities cannot be ignored.

DaVincix wrote: " I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265 "

@ Psijonica

... thanks for this, and the link to Emma's point on Beth's forum.


Couldn't stress more my support for Emma's expressed opinion: Money ( in this relation and in the last consquence: greed ) is the Poison for the modding-scene and its community. It'll destroy the spirit of modding and sharing.

But, let's face it (again): We are all dependent on the decisions of the gaming-industry. What's the gaming-industry? Real people ... humans, which decide about the game-business-concepts.

Psijonica wrote: @ DaVincix

I agree with you completely. Not only do they think they own the game but some time during the height of the Oblivion craze moddders started believing that they owned their mods. As Emma said herself and like I have been saying for years on my blogs and in forums, modders don't own anything. This generation of Skyrim modders are just rude and spoiled children and when they grow and realize what has really happened here then they will all cry foul but it will be too late. I think it is already too late. And so does Emma.

I have know Emma for many years. I have shared laughs and tears through our private conversations. I have been a member of her forum since she released Vilja for Oblivion. Obviously she is very disturbed with what is going on with this new generation of Skyrim modders. Disgusted is really a more accurate word. Which is why she is so upset to see what has happened.

I know because Emma has told me that she has been reduced to tears by many of the rude comments about her mod and her voice. These children are really mean. And that is why I am ready to give up. Why should I care any more... I don't think I do.

It is an end of an era and like Emma I think I am just going to go back to her forum and hide there and watch the chaos destroy what I was a part of, a great community that respected each other. That is all gone now... it will never be the same again.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

He's made his own opinions clear SEVERAL times, you continue to CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR HIM.
If you don't trust Dark0ne, then what are you doing on his website downloading FREE MODS, using a FREE ACCOUNT?

Why not go to a Mod Website that you "Trust" and download mods from there, instead of staying here on a website you don't trust, with a CEO you don't trust?

What a hypocrite you look like, you don't trust Dark0ne, but you freely use his site with a FREE ACCOUNT, and download FREE MODS.

Hypocrite much?

akkalat85 wrote: @bigdeano89: He's not fear mongering at all. People on the workshop forums have already posted torrent links for the paid bundle. So yes it's really happening right now. Being a programmer myself, I fear for the future of this community with regards to piracy of paid mods.

Honestly, what in the world would make you think this wouldn't happen? You really thought people weren't going to pirate paid mods? Is this your first time on the internet?

This effects everyone and sticking your fingers in your ears and calling people fear mongers is only adding fuel to an already raging inferno.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I've seen the problems that Dark0ne and the team has faced over the past few years... Valvesda seem to have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.

It's about respect and there seems to be less and less of that around these days.

TheknightofRand wrote: The problem with the privacy rational is that it is dependent on the conclusion that an author either A) give all of their creation away for free or B) charge and be pirated. The threat is basically give it to us or we will take it and that is wrong. Also while you own a copy of the game or a license, hence the licensing agreement you often enter into. authors do own their mods in a property sense based on both development and labor theory of property, as well as personhood theory.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Yes, intellectual property is being walked all over with this.

Psijonica

Having modded way back in 2003 for Morrowind, I agree with some of your post as far as modding "community" goes, but why do you feel the need to attack Dark0ne in EVERY SINGLE POST, as if he has single-handedly destroyed modding, when he in fact HASN'T, and instead has provided a place for modders to promote their creations?

Valve and Bethesda can only win if we LET THEM WIN.

If you don't want Valve and Bethesda to win, then don't put up PAID MODS, keep them free.
Don't go all " Drama-Queen" and hole up in your own Forum and cry about the future of Mods and do NOTHING (All I can picture is the scene in LOTR where the Elves leave Middle Earth)

Funny that you complain that " Dark0ne stand to make "Hundreds of thousands of dollars" somehow, from random modders who may or may not decide to check the box that sends the Nexus 5% of their sales for that ONE MOD to the Nexus, yet you don't seem to be upset about that Modder making 20% more "Hundreds of thousands of dollars" from selling their mod.
Your anger is misplaced, and you're aiming it at the wrong person.

As a matter of fact you NEVER mention how MODDERS making Hundreds of Thousands of Dollar from "Paid for mods" upsets you, you only seem to be bothered by Dark0ne, who by the way, you're complaining about FOR FREE, on his Website, FOR FREE.

So a modder from 2009 is upset about paid mods, well, I'm a modder from 2003, and I'm upset about paipaid mods too, but I'm not going to sit here and constantly WHINGE about Dark0ne, instead of complaining about the REAL Culprits Bethesda and Valve.

Bethesda's Online Game failed because their online game isn't moddable, and people LOVE to mod Bethesda games, BECAUSE IT'S FUN.
Let's face it, Bethesda aren't the Best Game creators out there, their games are usually broken, buggy, and even incomplete, and IMO they've gotten lazy and expect Modders to finish their games for them
Hell, we've even seen comments from the DEVS on their blog about some Mods, modders have built where even the DEVS say "Oh WOW! I didn't know you could do that in the GECK or Creation Kit"

Unfortunately, the powers that be at Bethesda, apparently are a bit too arrogant to realize, and/or admit, that it's the MODDERS who actually polish, spit-shine, and fix their games to be functional and presentable to the public at large.

NOTHING will get accomplished if modders just "give up", return to their Fortresses of Solitude" or "Forums of Solitude" and just "Wither away" and declare "The war is lost" without even having tried to fight one.

Instead of declaring "all is lost" become proactive and doing something about it, such as releasing EVEN MORE MODS and not making them available on Steamworks, instead of wasting time here pointing fingers Edited April 26, 2015 by HadToRegister

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494, #24686649 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

SjoertJansen wrote: @mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes.

Elta1 wrote: Wow... I think that is very cool. Trying to make a system more on promoting donation by not requiring it. I think he is on to something.

@ GhostAgent

Your intellectual property has been Endorsed!

[AlfredTheUnprepared]

Who else now wants to see a movie that's like Pirate Radio, but for modders?