Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24690144.

 

 

 

nekollx wrote:

Black listing is not the answer as it brings us down to Valvesda's level of brutality. How about polite refusal of service?

 

Pardon my condour but when all the new dollar hungry modders come crying saying "oh no my mod and Elder Scrolls VI is a pile of unfunctioning doo doo" then it will remain to be seen where the balances of power stand.

 

Beth may actually end regretting giving up the endless amounts of "free" customer support they receive from communitites like this.

 

ooooor how about neither? How about taking each mod on it's own, forming a rational opion on the modder based on their body of work and deciding weather or not to support them etither via Endorsements here, buying one of their products over at Steam, via Dination here, Becoming a Patreon, or just ignoring there content.

 

I know crazy talk but i'm almost 40 years old us old geasers tend to have this crazy idea of how the world works at times.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24689694. #24689974 is also a reply to the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

Psijonica wrote: THIS

You can go to the Bethesda forums and complain. Most members there are against it. All the polls are overwhelmingly against it.

Yes even if its PR I have managed to gain back some respect for GabeN.

Although I have to add that Valve the ability to twist ZeniBeth's arm a fair bit more than we alone can, so would be good to get him onboard to make things better regulated and protect the customer.

[FallenKnighte]

Ok, first of all, if anyone has previously posted the same, or similar comments to those I am about to write, I apologize... any plagiarism was completely coincidental and unintentional.

 

Disregarding the highly provocative nature of the Curated Workshop System recently enacted by Valve for the moment, I have read a lot of posts where the posters have queried the rights of the Mod Author to put their Mods behind this new system, without seeking permission from any other Mod Author whose assets they have used for free in order to create said Mod.

 

I would like to point out, if it has not already been done, that NO Mod Author owns diddly with regards to their Mod, except the Idea, Design and time spent in its creation. All assets used in any Mod remain the property of Bethesda and the developers of the tools used to create them.

 

Even if an Author creates an entirely new Mesh, Texture, etc, that asset is actually owned by the developers of the tools used... 3DSMax, Nifscope, Photoshop... the list goes on.

 

Back to the topic at hand. I also share many of the concerns other posters have raised about this move. The biggest worry is that all Mod Authors will decide that placing all new creations and updates to existing creations exclusively behind this new system will most definitely pass a death sentence over the Modding Community. I'm sure that there are Mod Authors to vehemently pronounce that they will never make their Mods "Pay Only" but the concern is very real.

 

My other concern is with regards to the way in which we manage the installation and playing of any Mods accessed through this system.

 

Currently, most people use a combination of NMM, Mod Organizer and Wrye Bash to activate their Mods. Steam Workshop places any Mods directly into the Data folder in Skyrim which are then activated through Skyrim's interface prior to starting the game.

 

While there is a workaround for this, at least I think so, its nevertheless an extra step to try and avoid the headaches gained when maintaining a stable Load Order.

 

Flaming, trolling, bashing, cursing of any Mod Author who decides to go this route helps no-one. If you don't like the decision the Mod Author has made, that's your choice.... feel free to unendorse and remove mods if that makes you feel better.Just show a little maturity when doing so.

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised its taken this long for this to appear. Given the quality of work in Mods like Nehrim: At Fate's Edge bu SureAI and Death Mountain by OblivionLaserie (not to mention their recently released Death Mountain 2), and that's just the barest flicker of the work I am constantly in awe of (Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, SkyUI, iHUD, Proect Reality: Climates of Tamriel, I could go on for pages, bu I think you get the picture)

 

Whether you agrree or not (not, being the most prevalent opinion), it simply boils down to this:-

 

If you don't want to pay for a Mod, no-one is forcing you to. The vast majority of Mod Authors that have taken this controvercial move, have in no way left us with unworkable verions on this site... yes, some require tweaking, patches, etc but with those implemented, they work fine. You may have to sacrifice the odd Mod in favour of another, or even not intall it, if Script Latency (as one example) is a major issue. That is what Profiling is for, a feature long-implemented in Mod Organizer, soon-to-be implemented in NMM as well as available in various forms on the Nexus.

 

Personally, I'm not in a position (like many others) where I can afford to keep the Mods I use updated if they are exclusively moved to the Curated Workshop System. I will, therefore, have to muster on with the most current versions available, prior to said move (insert sound of the smallest violin in the world playing in the background here).

 

Most of us have the Official DLC, whether we bought them as they were released, or from subsequent Legendary releases. No-one forced us to buy them. We bought them, because we wanted to, because they introduced new content to the existing game. The DLCs are Mods, regardless of whether they came from Bethesda Studios or Stornin' Norman of Arkensaw. We still bought them. If you are one of the people who has any of the DLCs... you have NO RIGHT to complain about the decision of a few Mod Authors to release their creations through this PAywall.

 

Ultimately, its your decision whether you continue to use any content provided by these Mod Authors, or not.

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904 is also a reply to the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

[Farvahar]

In response to post #24689889.

Woobisan wrote:

There is a sociopathic strain at "Bethesda" (actually ZeniMax) lately, to be sure.

[ManleySteele]

There are a lot of assumptions being bandied about, RE: the future of single player games. Some are well thought out and reasoned; some, not so much. I'm not going to respond to any of the camps that are slowly taking shape. It's not because I don't have an opinion. I do. In the long run, all any of us can do is wait and see, concerning BSW's intent for the future. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Or maybe not. I will always have the option of taking my ball and going home. I may have to resort to that in the end, but I'm not ready yet.

 

My advice to all is to keep your options open as long as possible, but don't forget to look at my motto, lol.

[Farvahar]

In response to post #24690879.

FallenKnighte wrote:

I don't think you are correct about the law.

[Lateraliss]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904, #24690914 are all replies on the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

Fowldragon wrote: How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

Fun fact. Did you know that the Bible isn't referencing the eye of a needle of a sewing needle? There was a gate in Jerusalem called The Eye of the Needle. It was too small for a camel and its baggage to get through, so the people would have to first take all the baggage off the camel and the camel would have to basically crawl through.

It's a good metaphor, as the camel would have to remove all its possessions before passing through the gate.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24690764.

nekollx wrote:

I bet most world leader's thought that in 2008... besides I have met many people younger than me who know a great deal about things I don't. I don't think we ever stop learning.

I agree that people have free choice, and personal opinion. My suggestion comes from the game of hard ball that has been forced onto the community however.

Judging things on an individual basis is something I have faith a lot of people do anyway. I did not mean to offend anybody just trying to suggest alternatives to stop mass blacklisting which will just kill the community from within.

[Woobisan]

In response to post #24690569.

joz23 wrote:

True, it really saddens me how the gaming industry has become what it is now. Honestly Bethesda probably doesn't care what we think, all the need to do is make a game console exclusive and that solves the problem for them. i can foresee them pulling a Cliffy B/Epic Games kinda situation.