Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[nekollx]

Amendum (since this thread moves so fast didn't want to edit it and have it lost)
Most Modders, as in people actually MAKING MODS have stated they don't have a problem with paid moding just Valve's IMPLEMENTATION of it.

 

Lord High Gopher said it best though.

 

"Imagine if Bethsoft sent you a email asking you to make a updated version of a mod you had long finished/abandoned, and were going to PAY YOU FOR IT. I'd probably say yes please...modders are still fanboys at heart."

 

This is what happened the big name mods on the Workshop got a EMAIL from BETHSOFT itself asking them to make a exclusive version of their mod for the Workshop, a mod they had long since been content with and left finished, but now with the promise of money they could do things that would be impractical to do out of pocket on their own.

 

And i can't tell you from experience when Nintendo of America call me up on the phone or emails me to find out the progress of my 3rd party game i've been developing for the last 2 years it's takes every fiber in my being to keep a cool head and not just gush all over them or apologize for it taking so long and disapointing Mario.

[Jasmer]

In response to post #24690144. #24690504 is also a reply to the same post.

nekollx wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Black listing is not the answer as it brings us down to Valvesda's level of brutality. How about polite refusal of service?

Pardon my condour but when all the new dollar hungry modders come crying saying "oh no my mod and Elder Scrolls VI is a pile of unfunctioning doo doo" then it will remain to be seen where the balances of power stand.

Beth may actually end regretting giving up the endless amounts of "free" customer support they receive from communitites like this.

sunshinebrick I kind of think that's what will happen as well. While the responsibility I think has been placed on the purchaser to ensure it won't ruin his/her game, they'll still be inundated with complaints about broken saves, mod conflicts, etc. and remember why leaving all this free development and troubleshooting to the community was such a good idea.

Of course it could turn out that mod sellers will simply be expected to provide technical support for their content or leave buyers at the mercy of comments and forums. That would likely only sour people's views of Bethesda and Valve, and could be bad PR.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904, #24690914, #24691034, #24691774, #24698794, #24698939, #24698984 are all replies on the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

Fowldragon wrote: How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

Lateraliss wrote: Fun fact. Did you know that the Bible isn't referencing the eye of a needle of a sewing needle? There was a gate in Jerusalem called The Eye of the Needle. It was too small for a camel and its baggage to get through, so the people would have to first take all the baggage off the camel and the camel would have to basically crawl through.

It's a good metaphor, as the camel would have to remove all its possessions before passing through the gate.

diyeath wrote: Principal and conviction are only luxuries when you surround yourself with an environment that's counter intuitive to those concepts.

Fowldragon wrote: @lateraliss..That IS a fun fact!! I honestly thought it was literally a needle.

@sunshinenbrick...Money always changes the game...and it always attracts the people who want to get something for nothing...but the net is a collective that has innumerable sets of eyes. My Best friends Mom used to always say, " What is concocted in the Dark, will always be revealed in the light of Day.
My greatest fear, is not of the few Toads that will MUCK it up...Rather, it will be the Stroti's Tamiras, Elianoras and literally Everyone who has ever given their work away for nothing more than the courtesy of being attributed for their work... who are forced to revoke that GOOD WILL

@diyeath People have to pay bills, a man/woman of Good Character and Conscience is no exception. I won't debate this. Life is full of examples of ordinary people who dealing with extraordinary circumstances make difficult but pragmatic decisions...Not every fight.

Fowldragon wrote: srry, "Not every fight, is the "GOOD FIGHT"

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ diyeath

Man, that is deep... That's got me thinking every which way! Love it :D

By "wrong people" I mean if someone free loads off other people's hard work and then goes to make loads of money selling it to unsuspecting people.

EDIT: Just to clarify that this is not implying everyone, but the way they seem to have set it up now appears to offer very little protection from abuse. I guess they figure that bad apples will be weeded out over time... in the meantime however.

I really think modders should see the real value of what they do and demand better conditions. Hey, a modders strike?? Edited April 27, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[Deleted3507349User]

In response to post #24691019.

ManleySteele wrote:

If we make our voices heard, we may have no influence over the direction of modding.

If we adopt a wait-and-see approach and remain silent, we will certainly have no influence.

[Davidheat]

In response to post #24690144. #24690504, #24691194 are all replies on the same post.

nekollx wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Black listing is not the answer as it brings us down to Valvesda's level of brutality. How about polite refusal of service?

Pardon my condour but when all the new dollar hungry modders come crying saying "oh no my mod and Elder Scrolls VI is a pile of unfunctioning doo doo" then it will remain to be seen where the balances of power stand.

Beth may actually end regretting giving up the endless amounts of "free" customer support they receive from communitites like this.

Jasmer wrote: sunshinebrick I kind of think that's what will happen as well. While the responsibility I think has been placed on the purchaser to ensure it won't ruin his/her game, they'll still be inundated with complaints about broken saves, mod conflicts, etc. and remember why leaving all this free development and troubleshooting to the community was such a good idea.

Of course it could turn out that mod sellers will simply be expected to provide technical support for their content or leave buyers at the mercy of comments and forums. That would likely only sour people's views of Bethesda and Valve, and could be bad PR.

Sorry Nekollx, there is no helping the stupid, If they want to block the Modders, let them, they are the ones that are missing out

also I hate the system, Not the modders

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24690144. #24690504, #24691194 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

nekollx wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Black listing is not the answer as it brings us down to Valvesda's level of brutality. How about polite refusal of service?

 

Pardon my condour but when all the new dollar hungry modders come crying saying "oh no my mod and Elder Scrolls VI is a pile of unfunctioning doo doo" then it will remain to be seen where the balances of power stand.

 

Beth may actually end regretting giving up the endless amounts of "free" customer support they receive from communitites like this.

Jasmer wrote: sunshinebrick I kind of think that's what will happen as well. While the responsibility I think has been placed on the purchaser to ensure it won't ruin his/her game, they'll still be inundated with complaints about broken saves, mod conflicts, etc. and remember why leaving all this free development and troubleshooting to the community was such a good idea.

 

Of course it could turn out that mod sellers will simply be expected to provide technical support for their content or leave buyers at the mercy of comments and forums. That would likely only sour people's views of Bethesda and Valve, and could be bad PR.

Sorry Nekollx, there is no helping the stupid, If they want to block the Modders, let them, they are the ones that are missing out

 

also I hate the system, Not the modders

 

sorry but as the professional teacher, developer, and modder in the room i feel it's my duty to educate.

 

After all there are no stupid people only misinformed ones.

[AlfredTheUnprepared]

In response to post #24687319. #24687789, #24689849, #24690344 are all replies on the same post.

harhar1011 wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: 119,756 signatures as of now.
I have it book marked and look in on it every now and then.

=== Edit ===
And here's a link to the petition in case anyone's been living under a rock and hasn't seen it.

Psijonica wrote: I would not start to think that this is a done deal. That petition is going to need MILLIONS of signatures to have any effect at all. When it gets to 250,000 then we are getting somewhere. That is a start. 100,000 signatures is really not going to stop a corporation.

Still it is a promising start. However look at the numbers; how many people have purchased mods of of Steam during that time? Not just for Skyrim... total sales for the last 3 days. Are sales increasing? We need to watch the numbers over a period of time. 48 hours is just not enough time to get a real good picture of where we stand.

It is a good start but from what I am feeling on these boards and elsewhere it seems the youger generation is ok with pay-for-mods and the older generation thinks it is a terrible idea. Where is the money? With the kids... I am not that hopeful but I really hope I am wrong.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It is the newest generation of modders/users that we need to appeal to. I will not use workshop, especially if one has to.

How do we appeal to young people? Well this literally is the million dollar question, but I think the answer to this will become apparent.

A good history lesson and the wisdom of the elders will help too. As is keeping up the dialogue with those at large.

If it ever becomes workshop only I hust dread to think what would happen to competition... uh oh right there will not be any!

"The Wisdom of the elders will help too."

Are you saying we need to...go find a scroll? :D

[nekollx]

Krosis....you must find a Kell...an Elder Scroll....

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24687319. #24687789, #24689849, #24690344, #24691474 are all replies on the same post.

harhar1011 wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: 119,756 signatures as of now.
I have it book marked and look in on it every now and then.

=== Edit ===
And here's a link to the petition in case anyone's been living under a rock and hasn't seen it.

Psijonica wrote: I would not start to think that this is a done deal. That petition is going to need MILLIONS of signatures to have any effect at all. When it gets to 250,000 then we are getting somewhere. That is a start. 100,000 signatures is really not going to stop a corporation.

Still it is a promising start. However look at the numbers; how many people have purchased mods of of Steam during that time? Not just for Skyrim... total sales for the last 3 days. Are sales increasing? We need to watch the numbers over a period of time. 48 hours is just not enough time to get a real good picture of where we stand.

It is a good start but from what I am feeling on these boards and elsewhere it seems the youger generation is ok with pay-for-mods and the older generation thinks it is a terrible idea. Where is the money? With the kids... I am not that hopeful but I really hope I am wrong.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It is the newest generation of modders/users that we need to appeal to. I will not use workshop, especially if one has to.

How do we appeal to young people? Well this literally is the million dollar question, but I think the answer to this will become apparent.

A good history lesson and the wisdom of the elders will help too. As is keeping up the dialogue with those at large.

If it ever becomes workshop only I hust dread to think what would happen to competition... uh oh right there will not be any!

harhar1011 wrote: "The Wisdom of the elders will help too."

Are you saying we need to...go find a scroll? :D

Yes! Print everything, bug fixes, tweaks - the lot! Then go dark and see how they scramble :D

This is a joke people, just so ya know.

[smaxy]

Well my opinion on this entire situation: If gaming companies indeed wish to support modders (yeah right!) let them HIRE the best modders for some sort of 3rd party DLCs (completely independent agreement from their previous free mods), to create an independent, new DLCs (with some of their mod ideas and experiences implemented/OR not) with proper support and full, official quality control, while they can continue with their (free) mods as they like - something that Paradox for example, tried couple of times. btw I'm not a big fan of how Paradox exploiting and treating modders in general, nor i'm saying their practice always worked (magnus mundi or DIG fe), and i certainly not intend to argue about PI policies here, i'm just saying i think it is a better (basic) model, an example that should be improved and developed.

 

Instead Steam/bethesda simply decided to attack (i can't use no other word here) players with this shameful act. I'm not at all surprised by greedy corporations, i do not even condemn (some) modders who decided to sell their work (i won't say their soul as well, we are all human afterall and we all need money), but i absolutely can NOT understand >players< who support this.. no matter what they say this is nothing but a sneaky aggression against modding and playing community, corporate overtake of free modding community. If we do not stop them now, soon more and more games will follow this practice, mostly because Steam already (almost) monopolized pc gaming, and now they obviously intend to take mods from us as well... They must be stopped. No pasaran. Just NO.

 

How? Be united and be loud, continue with this internet campaign, forums, youtube, everywhere, and by all means - don't buy these 'mods' or whatever they call them now (they should find a new word for them anyway). Hopefully, confronted with bad PR and without profit they'll abandon this awful policy (at least until they find something else to profit on, and be sure they will continue with their intentions to incorporate modding community into their profiting schemes, this way or another).

Edited April 26, 2015 by smaxy