Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24718124. #24721434, #24722004, #24722269, #24722784 are all replies on the same post.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

twhelan wrote: Haven't been over at Steam for quite some time now, and I won't even follow any links I come across. The first thing I do when booting up is go in offline mode. As far as I'm concerned, the s***storm (as you so eloquently put it, hehe) has merely evolved into a s*** hurricane.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Not sure what you mean with (Steam) moderator aggression, i have voiced my opinion there several times in an entirely civilized manner and even substantially critized their products and business practices. No ban for me.

All the people I've seen banned pretty much deserved it due to death threats, obscenities, personal harassment and all that.


Of course it doesn't change that this whole thing is a huge desaster for everyone, except for the few people who'll get seriously rich by earning solid money from every transaction (without lifting a finger for it).

And it shows how stupid we all were to allow Steam becoming such a huge "monopolistic monoculture". People with dozens or hundreds of games registered on Steam can lose everything over one unthoughtful posting. And that is even legal.

twhelan wrote: @ScrollTronic

You put up a really good argument for thinking.

Fowldragon wrote: xXFaZeGabeN420Xx Apr 25 @ 12:48pm
dont kill me
kill barry, he invented the paid mod thing..
BARRY YOU'RE FIRED.

I found this post in a protest collection

@ ScrollTronic

Quote from my original post:

"Then went to the Beth forums"

Where they are basically stating, agree with us or piss off... not very inviting. I see the point about some people perhaps deserving it, death threats and what not, but some of these people are angry with good reason, and they may just use hyperbole (ever listened to people on the CoD servers. its endemic). It also kinda reinforces the message of "if we don't like you we will kill (ban) you"

It might be better to just delete posts or suspend rather than ban people as that sends out the wrong message to more polite members as a sort of closed door, which just aggravates more people and makes the company more and more faceless. Not good for PR.

I've never moderated a board before so do unfortunately do not speak from experience. Edited April 27, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[olivii]

I wanted to say something I haven't seen before in the forums but I don't know if it will be understood by people according to the fact that I can't speak english very well. I will try my best but please forgive my mistakes.

 

I'm pretty sure that, if this pay-to-mod system from Steam and Bethesda is maintained, a lot of mod-makers - and in particular some of the most talented ones - will feel a huge disappointment and probably some kind of betrayal. Let's imagine what can happen.

 

Do you really think that, if we have to pay for mods, the best-sellers will be mods like Frostfall, Wet and Cold, SkyUI, Climates of Tamriel, etc ? I don't think so. The Top 20 mods will be sexy meshes and texture mods : haircuts, curvy female bodies, ripped male bodies, faces textures including makeup, sexy clothes and armors, etc. Don't misjudge me : I don't think it is a bad thing at all. I am myself a fan of body and faces mods and I consider them as modern art forms. The "problem" is that such mods will drain the best part of people's modding budget. Why? Simply because people's money isn't infinite and choices will have to be made. Of course people can truly enjoy complex and poetic mods like the ones made by authors like as Chesko and Isoku ... but most of them can only do so when the character they are playing with has already been created according to their tastes. So, when I hear people saying that money will encourage huge, complex and atypical mods, I don't agree. Money will mostly encourage mods filling a need or a basic desire. Money will not promote diversity in the modding world but uniformity. In a pay-to-mod environment, what will happen to mods based on complex programming for the purpose of enjoying the beauty of shooting stars or meteor showers ? I think they will not be rewarded as they probably should. Not a lot of money, not a lot of public visibility, no real recognition from the public. In a free modding environment things are different : no money of course (except from donations), but a huge visibility and a real recognition.

If what I am anticipating happens, serious issues should happen next. Look a the massive number of downloads for body mods like CBBE, UNP, UNPB, ADEC, SevenBase, CHSBHC, CNHF, DreamGirl, etc. Look at the diversity and at the popularity of face textures for men and women. That's incredible. What will happen to the first body mod (with underwear of course) sold on Steam for two dollars for games such as Fallout4 or TES VI ? The modder, despite the unfair 25% cut, will make loads of money. Let's imagine 50000 downloads the first 10 days for a 2 dollars mod. It represents 25000 dollars ! And for what ? Just for a body mod and just because its author has been the first one to upload this type of mod to the steam workshop. This mod, even if it isn't a good one, will outshine other similar mods just because it has been released one week before them. Is this an encouragement to people making good mods and taking their time to do so ? It's not my opinion. And that kind of reasoning doesn't apply only to body or face mods but to every mod out there : weather mods, jewelry mods, sound mods, ... In a free modding community, you can try and you can change. In a pay-to-mod system, you can also do that but it will be much much more difficult because you have to pay using your hard-earned money. But the better hasn't come yet. According to the amounts of money potentially involved, do you think that only modders will be interested in selling mods ? A lot of professional graphists, programmers or animators are unemployed around the world and I think that they will really want to make some quick and easy money making mods. Not because they like the games of course, but because they need the money. I can understand the motivation of those people, but this is definitly not the spirit a modding community should have. In that perspective, and because of the money involved, I also think that the "veteran" mod authors (I mean the ones really involved in the community for a long long time and making superb mods for free) will not be the first to release their popular mods. I may be a bit paranoïd but I would not be surprised to see a well-informed graphist already making those mods so they can be ready on day-one for Fallout 4 or TESVI.

[Riprock]

In response to post #24710379.

Ibnor wrote:

What's wrong is that the expectation is now to get paid. Not to make a good product, not to make a superior product but to make the marketable product. Think that the so-noble 'modders' will be immune? Guess again. There will be a percentage that does it for the passion they have for modding and nothing else. Probably will be easily the best modders too. But the NORMAL state will be "paid to make the mod". This isn't a fantasy, this is human nature. When the inmates run the asylum, the scrimmage for advantage will be the default position.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24722219.

MacKom wrote:

Check the news post before this one. We updated the donation system and you need to turn it on in your file settings.

[ramccoid]

I'm totally disgusted by all of this. You're all posting bitter comments accusing people of this and that but you don't even give yourself time to sit down and look at what damage you have done. I bet it never. ever crosses your minds because you're so caught up in yourselves that nothing goes beyond what you want. Dark0ne told you that the Nexus will always be free. So you all decide to rant about his business dealings which he declared, benefits you, by making the Nexus sites and community better. So what's there to moan about? You're getting free mods on better sites.

 

The thing that does really hurt us mod authors and is a total kick in the teeth, from you to us, is the way you all made the absolute effort to put a protest mod at the top of the hot files and now have almost voted it file of the month, wish you had made that effort with all mods. I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. Then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. You all disgust me, when it benefits you, you'll make the effort and only if it benefits you. What free mods are you fighting for, if you lose all the quality mod authors to your selfishness. When you all only have a vast choice of mediocre protest crap to download, then you all will be the first to abandon the community, leaving it in tatters and not worth a damn to anybody.

 

Valve and Bethesda isn't destroying free mods, they don't need to because you're all making a very good job of it yourselves by discouraging authors to mod. Why aren't you all spitting your bitter venom, at the Steam forums? That's the site which is doing this, no you would rather close your Steam accounts as a protest than keep them open and do that. The Nexus is free, so what is there to protest here about? You should be grateful that there is a Nexus, not stab the guy who created it in the back.

 

These past few days, has shown me the real colours of the community and they aren't very bright at all. I am feeling like I want to give up modding for the community because the way it is at the moment, makes me feel like it just isn't worth spending any more of my valued time upon creating anything, if it wasn't for the minority of real quality members the decision would be a very easy one to make. A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. I really do hope that you all stop with this insanity and become valued members of the community and treat it with a bit of respect before it's too late to be repaired and all of us who give you those free mods are gone forever.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24710379. #24724494 is also a reply to the same post.

Ibnor wrote:

Riprock wrote: What's wrong is that the expectation is now to get paid. Not to make a good product, not to make a superior product but to make the marketable product. Think that the so-noble 'modders' will be immune? Guess again. There will be a percentage that does it for the passion they have for modding and nothing else. Probably will be easily the best modders too. But the NORMAL state will be "paid to make the mod". This isn't a fantasy, this is human nature. When the inmates run the asylum, the scrimmage for advantage will be the default position.

When I go to to buy food and pay for it, I eat it... End of commitment to the store. I do not buy potatoes and then pay rent on them. I may however give a donation to my partner who made our dinner with them though.

This works because I go back to the store as I am not being drained for all I'm worth... well it hasn't got that bad yet, except of course as society as a whole with the exponential need of food banks and soup kitchens.

Food BANKS... wow man what a dangerous idea.

[jad31te]

In response to post #24718124. #24721434, #24722004, #24722269, #24722784, #24724124 are all replies on the same post.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

twhelan wrote: Haven't been over at Steam for quite some time now, and I won't even follow any links I come across. The first thing I do when booting up is go in offline mode. As far as I'm concerned, the s***storm (as you so eloquently put it, hehe) has merely evolved into a s*** hurricane.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Not sure what you mean with (Steam) moderator aggression, i have voiced my opinion there several times in an entirely civilized manner and even substantially critized their products and business practices. No ban for me.

All the people I've seen banned pretty much deserved it due to death threats, obscenities, personal harassment and all that.


Of course it doesn't change that this whole thing is a huge desaster for everyone, except for the few people who'll get seriously rich by earning solid money from every transaction (without lifting a finger for it).

And it shows how stupid we all were to allow Steam becoming such a huge "monopolistic monoculture". People with dozens or hundreds of games registered on Steam can lose everything over one unthoughtful posting. And that is even legal.

twhelan wrote: @ScrollTronic

You put up a really good argument for thinking.

Fowldragon wrote: xXFaZeGabeN420Xx Apr 25 @ 12:48pm
dont kill me
kill barry, he invented the paid mod thing..
BARRY YOU'RE FIRED.

I found this post in a protest collection

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ ScrollTronic

Quote from my original post:

"Then went to the Beth forums"

Where they are basically stating, agree with us or piss off... not very inviting. I see the point about some people perhaps deserving it, death threats and what not, but some of these people are angry with good reason, and they may just use hyperbole (ever listened to people on the CoD servers. its endemic). It also kinda reinforces the message of "if we don't like you we will kill (ban) you"

It might be better to just delete posts or suspend rather than ban people as that sends out the wrong message to more polite members as a sort of closed door, which just aggravates more people and makes the company more and more faceless. Not good for PR.

I've never moderated a board before so do unfortunately do not speak from experience.

I have.. and their job is not fun, not to mention everyone always looks at the moderators and not at the people actually giving the orders. If Admistration says to ban, you ban.. that simple

Question though, what has been Forced upon them?

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24710379. #24724494, #24724914 are all replies on the same post.

Ibnor wrote:

Riprock wrote: What's wrong is that the expectation is now to get paid. Not to make a good product, not to make a superior product but to make the marketable product. Think that the so-noble 'modders' will be immune? Guess again. There will be a percentage that does it for the passion they have for modding and nothing else. Probably will be easily the best modders too. But the NORMAL state will be "paid to make the mod". This isn't a fantasy, this is human nature. When the inmates run the asylum, the scrimmage for advantage will be the default position.

sunshinenbrick wrote: When I go to to buy food and pay for it, I eat it... End of commitment to the store. I do not buy potatoes and then pay rent on them. I may however give a donation to my partner who made our dinner with them though.

This works because I go back to the store as I am not being drained for all I'm worth... well it hasn't got that bad yet, except of course as society as a whole with the exponential need of food banks and soup kitchens.

Food BANKS... wow man what a dangerous idea.

If you've never been charged...and told you'll never be charged...your analogy doesn't match up

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24718124. #24721434, #24722004, #24722269, #24722784, #24724124, #24725044 are all replies on the same post.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

twhelan wrote: Haven't been over at Steam for quite some time now, and I won't even follow any links I come across. The first thing I do when booting up is go in offline mode. As far as I'm concerned, the s***storm (as you so eloquently put it, hehe) has merely evolved into a s*** hurricane.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Not sure what you mean with (Steam) moderator aggression, i have voiced my opinion there several times in an entirely civilized manner and even substantially critized their products and business practices. No ban for me.

All the people I've seen banned pretty much deserved it due to death threats, obscenities, personal harassment and all that.


Of course it doesn't change that this whole thing is a huge desaster for everyone, except for the few people who'll get seriously rich by earning solid money from every transaction (without lifting a finger for it).

And it shows how stupid we all were to allow Steam becoming such a huge "monopolistic monoculture". People with dozens or hundreds of games registered on Steam can lose everything over one unthoughtful posting. And that is even legal.

twhelan wrote: @ScrollTronic

You put up a really good argument for thinking.

Fowldragon wrote: xXFaZeGabeN420Xx Apr 25 @ 12:48pm
dont kill me
kill barry, he invented the paid mod thing..
BARRY YOU'RE FIRED.

I found this post in a protest collection

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ ScrollTronic

Quote from my original post:

"Then went to the Beth forums"

Where they are basically stating, agree with us or piss off... not very inviting. I see the point about some people perhaps deserving it, death threats and what not, but some of these people are angry with good reason, and they may just use hyperbole (ever listened to people on the CoD servers. its endemic). It also kinda reinforces the message of "if we don't like you we will kill (ban) you"

It might be better to just delete posts or suspend rather than ban people as that sends out the wrong message to more polite members as a sort of closed door, which just aggravates more people and makes the company more and more faceless. Not good for PR.

I've never moderated a board before so do unfortunately do not speak from experience.

jad31te wrote: I have.. and their job is not fun, not to mention everyone always looks at the moderators and not at the people actually giving the orders. If Admistration says to ban, you ban.. that simple

Question though, what has been Forced upon them?

Know what you mean by chain of command, sucks.

They are being forced into accepting new rules that they had no voice in making. I completely understand that some things are inevitable but not enough value is given to HOW you do things in the corporate world today. Just make as much money as you as quickly as you can. There are a few exceptions thank goodness, but you do tend to find these are the smaller, more independent companies.

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24724844.

ramccoid wrote:

__". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?