Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[CaladanAnduril]

Several quotes

 

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

 

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

 

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

 

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

 

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

 

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

 

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.

A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.

All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.

You... the "community, made it possible.

 

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."

Do you REALLY thing that?

 

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.

I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

 

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

 

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!

Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.

And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

 

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.

It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"

Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

 

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.

Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.

And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.

YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

 

Sad and shameful

 

[macintroll]

In response to post #24825259. #24825784 is also a reply to the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as it felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

+1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization." Edited April 30, 2015 by macintroll

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439 is also a reply to the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty. Edited April 30, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[Beltuine179]

Speaking only as a player if these companies wanted player input then they should pay some of the modders that made large contributions to help develop the next updated game in the franchise. This has happened in at least one game I played. This seems better than just re-rolling an old game engine which generally can never be completely updated.

 

I am not anti-capitalist but gaming is about the only community I know where there is a true sense of civitas -- doing for other people from your own resources to show your ability and generosity and a union with them in common goals. I hate to get political but in past times in society this was how people treated each other-- people you never or hardly ever knew.

 

I am glad that Steam removed their system and am grateful for all the efforts of all modders.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Terramaris]

In response to post #24784099. #24784289, #24785139, #24810294, #24811099, #24812869, #24813719, #24813764 are all replies on the same post.

ReconTA wrote: I'm going to post a segment of a comment left by a user on the Bethesda Blog, written in response to the 'Why we’re trying paid Skyrim mods on Steam' article. He goes by the name of JasonJones, and I think he sums up the biggest problem with the system far better then I can. It is a bit of a wall of text, but it hits the nail on the head.

Comment starts here:

1. Bethesda games (TES/Fallout) are not modded like games like Countre Strike, DAYZ and GTA. This comparison must be STOPPED.

Gary’s mod is NOT like a Skyrim mod that adds a SWORD…

Even a Skyrim total conversion mod will either use resources from other mods or must be made in a way that it is compatible with other mods. This requires ACCESS to how those mods were made and some of the code used. This means modders must be working together, sharing and collaborating with each other. Something not required even a LITTLE by “gary’s mod”…

This does not happen often in other games outside of the Sims community and also the Mount and Blade community.

2. Paid mods are not new. They have a long history…and in that long history they have torn large modding communities apart. Modders stop sharing, they stop collaborating and they start working against each other as other mods are then seen as competition.

The sims 2 community was the single largest community in HISTORY. The game had more mods than Skyrim/Oblivion/and the Fallout games combined. Once several modders started selling their mods and stopped sharing their resources it split the community apart as more and more started doing it…and then the attacks started. Blacklisting leading to groups targeting other modders hosts with tons of complaints getting sites taken down…personal LAWSUITS claiming the stealing of ideas. People taking someone else’s mods and selling them on their own sites…

The only reason the community survived the madness was due to the Mod the Sims site that stayed free and promoted sharing and collaborations.

Spore…a game made around the very idea that players would CREATE the majority of the game. EA had a website for the mods with a pay option…and that game was trashed by modders attacking each other to limit competition…mods being reported for “looking” like another claiming ideas were being copied. Needless to say, the game never lived up to its potential.

It took 1 entire day for the Skyrim community to be hit by this bad idea. The maker of SkyUI, the most popular SKyrim mod in its history announced he wouldn’t support it anymore and was going to be making a pay only version for the future.

That mod…the single most important mod due to other mods being integrated with it, namely MCM…which so many other mods use to allow their mods to have settings that can be changed by users…and many of those makers then stating they will be making updates to their mods to deliberately NOT work with the future SkyUI.

Instantly we had a virtual NIGHTMARE for modders and mod users.

The community had already split, lines were drawn…modders no longer working WITH each other. Even more placing disclaimers on their mods stating they will NOT share their resources with anyone making a pay mod. Again, lines drawn and the entire community taking a hit because that meant even more mods WONT be made because new resources are being held onto instead of being shared.

You cannot do something like this to a game like Skyrim where a person can actually COMPLAIN about 255 mods allowed to be used at one time being NOT ENOUGH…something you will never hear with the other games this move was being compared to…hell, many of those FPS games don’t even have 250 mods total and those that do use mods for those games rarely use more than a few at a time. This means there is no need for a modding community to be working together so their mods don’t conflict with each other with those games…and paid mods wont affect a thing.

bullpcp wrote: "It took 1 entire day for the Skyrim community to be hit by this bad idea. The maker of SkyUI, the most popular SKyrim mod in its history announced he wouldn’t support it anymore and was going to be making a pay only version for the future."

I would just like to point out that this modder would not have otherwise updated his mod at all. Essentially the paid for option presented a mod that otherwise would not have existed.

Wolvenlight wrote: These are all fantastic points and I agree with every single one.

ReconTA wrote: @bullpcp Well the mod is already next to perfect, so the benefits of that are negligible, and compared to the damage it would cause... definitely not worth it.

WightMage wrote: Probably one of the better posts on this topic.

Thoragoros wrote: That about sums it up.

Very good points.

jediakyrol wrote: Thank you...I thought I was the only one who remembered the SIMS debacle. My first words on this were "Here we f*ing go again!"
but really...it's like every 5 years mods get mixed with money and everyone loses...Doom with D!Zone, the SIMS web-store crap, the Spore "player created content" crap, now this. so...a few years from now, someone'll try it again, another modding community will tear itself apart, and we'll enter the waiting cycle again.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

In response to post #24784099. #24784289, #24785139, #24810294, #24811099, #24812869, #24813719 are all replies on the same post.

ReconTA wrote:

bullpcp wrote: "It took 1 entire day for the Skyrim community to be hit by this bad idea. The maker of SkyUI, the most popular SKyrim mod in its history announced he wouldn’t support it anymore and was going to be making a pay only version for the future."

I would just like to point out that this modder would not have otherwise updated his mod at all. Essentially the paid for option presented a mod that otherwise would not have existed.

Wolvenlight wrote: These are all fantastic points and I agree with every single one.

ReconTA wrote: @bullpcp Well the mod is already next to perfect, so the benefits of that are negligible, and compared to the damage it would cause... definitely not worth it.

WightMage wrote: Probably one of the better posts on this topic.

Thoragoros wrote: That about sums it up.

Very good points.

jediakyrol wrote: Thank you...I thought I was the only one who remembered the SIMS debacle. My first words on this were "Here we f*ing go again!"
but really...it's like every 5 years mods get mixed with money and everyone loses...Doom with D!Zone, the SIMS web-store crap, the Spore "player created content" crap, now this. so...a few years from now, someone'll try it again, another modding community will tear itself apart, and we'll enter the waiting cycle again.

This really can boil down to lack of action on Bethesda's part.

Standalone mods for sale is not really so much of an issue as the market will level out, although quality checks and copyright is critically important. This will also allow the free modding community to stay alive because some modders will not (want to) meet these standards.

 

EDIT: Whoa! Let's not forget the fact that every computer is different... imagine the customer support levels involved with that! Phew!

The real problem as I see it is mods, like SKYUI, are essential for many other mods to function. Official DLC does split the community into threads as some people will own them or not, as in my case. This is bearable and can create diversity and experimentation, and is still based on choice providing the original release is fully functional on its own.

 

SkyUI is different because it is part of the fundamental game design and functionality.

Example: I want Mod B but this requires Mod A. Mod C needs Mod B. So now I end up having to buy Mod A and Mod B just to use Mod C. See how this traps the player into a cycle of hidden costs to playing their games.

Factor in the online aspirations of companies it may mean that one player cannot play against another player... without spending money that was not part of the original contract the customer had with the developer. Yes the Sale of Goods Act, EULA and TOC must protect the Developer AND the Customer. Bethesda already ride a bumpy road on this issue as it is debatable their games are ready for release as it is.

What Bethesda should have done is offer a contract to either employ or buy the SkyUI project in order to incorporate it into a patch that was then distributed to players for free. This way the people who made the mod are happy and everyone else sees the ultimate fruit of a collective effort.

 

 

EDIT: In retrospect, regarding DLC such as Hearthfire, it could be argued that Bethesda owe some Intellectual Property down payments to many modders who helped them come up with the idea. Just a thought.

Posting here so I can save this quote on my profile. Amazingly written.

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104, #24818664, #24818959, #24820849, #24824549 are all replies on the same post.

chidosity wrote: My disgust with Valve and Bethesda has been replaced with a broken heart after reading the responses from prominent modders such as FavoredSoul.

I have been modding video games since Quake. I have modded over 100 games. My Skyrim Mods are minor, but still took some time to create.

Never in a million years would I think of charging for these mods, or any mod. I have been a part of total conversion projects that all told accounted for thousands of man-hours of development time.

Some of you are calling end-users entitled brats for wanting something for nothing. I am calling all of you mod authors that wish to be financially compensated for your work entitled brats. When you started your project, large or small, you never envisioned being paid for you work. No matter what your motivation was, money was never one of them.

Once that possibility became a reality, suddenly you're entitled to compensation? Horseshit.

You are a disease on this community. Myself, and thousands of others, have been happily donating our time to provide content for the games we love for over 20 years, needing nothing but a "thanks" once in a while. This community has survived on the fuel of good will for it's entire life-span, and will continue to survive in the face of your misguided sense of entitlement and greed.

Our community is so much better without modders that require financial compensation for their time and talent. When you go, a thousand young bright minds will replace you. Modding is a stepping stone to games development if you choose. If you choose not to go the route of professional games developer, then you do not need to be financially compensated. We mod because it brings us joy. You soil us all with your delusions of grandeur.

Brasscatcher wrote: And if they don't like it, they can hit the bricks. Right on, chido!

FavoredSoul wrote: You totally missed the point of my post.

95% of my discontent had to do with the simple fact that this "issue" has brought to the surface, such a disgusting amount of hate that I never knew existed, or was even possible. And why?

Did I even have any mods for sale? No. Only about 15 people were even part of the program, let me repeat that, *FIFTEEN*, so for people like you to say that people like me are greedy and entitled, when we DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING, that's the truly heart breaking part.

I was merely upset and disappointed over the fact that, for the briefest moment, the POSSIBILITY of some kind of return system existed, and it was so vilified, and so hated, that you guys decided to make, in large part, the mod-authors the target of that hate, and not bethesda and valve who were the ones that CREATED IT.

So again, when people like you say to people like me, "good riddance we don't need you", it just proves how disposable you think we are. You're happy to use our mods when we're offering, and just as readily are willing to throw us away without a second thought. You take us for granted, and that makes you nothing else but a selfish individual. And you say that I am the one with the disease?

I would say that anybody who posts comments like that, filled with hate, is the one with the disease. I haven't done anything. I didn't pull my mods from the Nexus. I didn't put any mods behind a paywall. Where did all this hate come from?

Musicdude132 wrote: "Some of you are calling end-users entitled brats for wanting something for nothing. I am calling all of you mod authors that wish to be financially compensated for your work entitled brats. When you started your project, large or small, you never envisioned being paid for you work. No matter what your motivation was, money was never one of them.

Once that possibility became a reality, suddenly you're entitled to compensation? Horseshit."

Well said.

I haven't been following this debacle, but I have seen some modders attacking users for "taking away their dream of making money off of mods" and in response will no longer be uploading free mods any more. How childish.

WightMage wrote: Personally, I think modders should be compensated at some point, but I agree that the end goal of modding should not be financial, for reasons stated over the past three news threads.

WightMage wrote: FavoredSoul, I get that the modders who joined the initial program (and were subsequently burned, both by users and Valve/Bethesda) were for the most part wrongly attacked, but I'm honestly confused as to how you can believe that mod-authors were vilified alone.

I've been watching these comments threads for six days too long, and from what I've seen, the hatred has passed from Valve/Bethesda, to SPECIFIC mod authors, back to Valve, back to Bethesda, stayed with Bethesda, back to Valve, and now that the system is dead, focused on mod users, many of whom were in fact DEFENDING the right of mod authors to get paid if they so wished. When people started attacking *you*, it was because you posted a reply that attacked mod users, who in turn thought that *you* were being entitled.

Do you see the problem here? This isn't helping anything. Anytime anyone creates a large post written entirely in the spirit of passion infused hatred, it just brews more hatred and we hear each other even less and less and yell more and more in response to being heard less.

It's only getting worse, and everyone involved with this riot mongering is culpable, even the OP of this thread. But from what I gather, he and several others like him only posted this because he felt he was being attacked, just as you did originally.

TL;DR, we all seriously need to get a drink together and talk about s#*! without throwing glasses at each other's face.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think the end goal if there is one for me is maybe getting a JOB out of it, not money. Not necessarily as a game designer but I find that what is my hobby actually allows me to learn a lot of skills.

A job (which modding can feel like sometimes) is about more than money, it is about realising your potential as a human being. What was offered was a job contract, and a lousy illegal one at that which had next to no protection for anyone except themselves and a few others.

Now I like to believe that there are some great people at both Beth and Val but with things the way they are in the world they are sometimes thrown into situations and make very bad decisions in the process. The problem with big business. This does not excuse what they did but it should not mean that there cannot be an open dialogue with them so as we can express our fears and concerns so that (as this is probably inevitable) we can find a compromise that we agree on. Authors and users alike. I think we must also argue that ending free modding altogether will be their undoing eventually.

Sorry I do not know you either and I have just mouthed off my opinions on your post but I just feel there are some deep issues here we need to get to grips with.

That's my 2 cents... or what ever the hell people are saying nowadays ;D

svanderwerf wrote: this is pretty much my entire problem with Valve's handing of this clusterfeic

They took an existing and very healthy community and did the one thing absolutely guaranteed to cause an ideological war. The level of mismanagement is staggering, and I'll be amazed if whoever was responsible for this debacle still has a job.

Wolvenlight wrote: Chido, I have to take FavoredSouls side here. Regardless of whether or not paid modding was a good idea overall, (and I personally think it wasn't,) the consumer portion of the Nexus was far more filled with extreme vitriol and hatred towards the paid authors, people who have given so much for free already. Very few mod authors who tried the paid workshop actually cared enough about being compensated to the point they wouldn't have modded in the first place. When presented with the option, they tried it. It did okay for some but ultimately failed. Many of them accepted that gracefully. Heck, it was always a possibility, quite a few games allow mods to be sold. Bethesda could always make that choice, and you know this is true, because they just did. However brief it was. And if your motivation is experience and a portfolio, then money is your motivation, simple as that.

When people like you attack them, calling them entitled brats, a disease, tell them how they should think, why they should do modding, (or anything,) as if you own the very concept... coming off to others as if you think you're so much better than them because you do it for free? (Not to be confused with "for nothing.") You prove everything the paid authors say against you and the people who first started this "war." Especially because you attacked first. I don't care how many mods you've made. I've never made one in my life and I'm on the paid authors side here. You think they're delusional? We don't need your mods either. We don't need you. Bethesda doesn't need you. There will always be other people. Your opinion isn't automatically better because you've made mods for free, or at all.

Also, no, nobody is going to replace them when they leave. People will come and go as they always have, but only you and your kind have chased good people away by being so dead set against not the system for it's flaws, but the innocent people who did nothing but fall outside your banner. We have lost their mods, their ideas, their concepts and assets because of the horrible things said by people like you. I like free mods, but I like fair, kind people a lot more. If I had to choose, I'd rather have a smaller more expensive modding community than a hate filled one. (Neither exist, but hey.)

Enough is enough. It's fine if you think it's a bad idea. Discuss it's flaws, rail against Bethesda, be logical, convince people. Don't hurt innocent people, and don't let jerks goad you.


Also, please learn how to use the word "entitled" correctly. I haven't seen anyone use it right once this entire fiasco.

Xazomn wrote: I would never pay for mods. Games and dlc's are expensive enough , let us not talk about cut to pieces micro dlc's for just a weapon or outfit. Why should i pay for mods that fix bugs that had to be solved by the game creator in the first place .
Most mods are made for themselfs they like to share, for the fun, for learning experience, realy,i wont pay for that.
Mods making my game intresting, sure , mods make the gameplay very intresting and makes me play longer with my games just like Skyrim . That game is 4 years now, other games even older. New games don't stay new. Why should i pay for mods that keep my old game intresting. If i need to pay 200 dollars for mods to keep a 4 year old game fun to play or even keep using mods that i already used and sudden need to pay for, well simple as that, i would buy a new game and put the rest into my pc and nothing into a old game and the mods.

As modder, for me it is the fun i got with the community, the learning experiences i get , i can show my thoughts,feelings ideas . I share my mods as others share them. To see my mods used in stories,comics or screens or companion mods means more to me then money.

MetalGearModder1155 wrote: You'll never know what you have until you don't have it anymore.

It's mainly to make a point about how, when an opportunity to make money vanished, people will complain, crash, and burn about how unfair it was that it was taken away... even if they were totally fine with pay-less modding, just to put on their resumé.

The same thing with the people who USE the mods... they have free mods from absurdly kind people in the community, but they don't even donate. What [else] happens (aside from the concern of crappy, low-quality content that might not even work) when that gets taken away? An uprising, and people LEARN what they had, as it's been taken away.

Personally, I'm too warm-hearted plenty of the time, so I end up feeling so bad when some good modder, such as FavoredSoul, gets up and leaves because no-one was appreciating them for their hard work. (AGAIN, Steam. Donate button, custom message from author. That'd fix so much.)

Yet, people don't seem to get that it was their fault for not actually giving credit to good modders for their work. Instead, when the modder even THINKS of taking advantage of the new system, they get bashed and beaten for wanting to feel accomplished for their work, thanks to worthless stacks of green paper.

May sound trite: but give damn credit where it's deserved. I mean, come on, SKSE and SkyUI both are very well-done. The SkyUI is eye-pleasing, fancy, and it's not terribly clunky either. SKSE... it allows you to create mods, basically.

Also, alter account was lost. Don't mind the post history.

Dragonfire12 wrote: Bethesda and Valve just killed the Goose that lays the Golden Egg. Modding has kept Skyrim and Oblivion, even Morowind, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, alive longer than they would have been otherwise. This means more sales of the games and DLC's. In that respect Bethesda has made money on modding.

I can understand Bethesda's motivations. It was Greed, they wanted to pocket some extra cash, from mod authors, plain and simple.

Funny thing about killing the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg. There is never any profit in it. Bethesda and Valve will never be able to undo what they have done. They have torn the modding community apart and set them against each other. Not only that, the rift will not have healed when Bethesda rolls out Fallout 4.

This has cost those fools money. The Goose is dead...

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ Dragonfire12

This is a point very well made.

Your disgusting comment only prove how much "professional " jealousy could be between modders.
I'm also modding games from the Quake era but it NEVER occurred into my mind to blame others for their decisions.
You say, quote
"... thousand young bright minds will replace you " end of quote.
It ever occured in your mind that the young brilliant modders will also read your comment?
And maybe, just maybe, they will be not so happy to replace the loss?... being so brilliant? and seeing the treatment of a modder to another fellow modder?

And above all... you totally missed the point of FavoredSoul, you just used his statement to make some advertising to your "reputation", who knows, maybe someone will remember you, if they are not already forgotten you as a modder.

Again, just hate and hypocrisy...

[choppercan]

In response to post #24821334.

Baelfyre wrote: I'd just like to take a moment to thank all the mod authors for their hard work. It's added enormously to my enjoyment of many games.

The only statement worth reading on this board

[retnav98]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED. Edited April 30, 2015 by retnav98

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

@ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness. Edited April 30, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

@ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.