Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[Terramaris]

In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104, #24818664, #24818959, #24820849, #24824549, #24826069 are all replies on the same post.

chidosity wrote: My disgust with Valve and Bethesda has been replaced with a broken heart after reading the responses from prominent modders such as FavoredSoul.

I have been modding video games since Quake. I have modded over 100 games. My Skyrim Mods are minor, but still took some time to create.

Never in a million years would I think of charging for these mods, or any mod. I have been a part of total conversion projects that all told accounted for thousands of man-hours of development time.

Some of you are calling end-users entitled brats for wanting something for nothing. I am calling all of you mod authors that wish to be financially compensated for your work entitled brats. When you started your project, large or small, you never envisioned being paid for you work. No matter what your motivation was, money was never one of them.

Once that possibility became a reality, suddenly you're entitled to compensation? Horseshit.

You are a disease on this community. Myself, and thousands of others, have been happily donating our time to provide content for the games we love for over 20 years, needing nothing but a "thanks" once in a while. This community has survived on the fuel of good will for it's entire life-span, and will continue to survive in the face of your misguided sense of entitlement and greed.

Our community is so much better without modders that require financial compensation for their time and talent. When you go, a thousand young bright minds will replace you. Modding is a stepping stone to games development if you choose. If you choose not to go the route of professional games developer, then you do not need to be financially compensated. We mod because it brings us joy. You soil us all with your delusions of grandeur.

Brasscatcher wrote: And if they don't like it, they can hit the bricks. Right on, chido!

FavoredSoul wrote: You totally missed the point of my post.

95% of my discontent had to do with the simple fact that this "issue" has brought to the surface, such a disgusting amount of hate that I never knew existed, or was even possible. And why?

Did I even have any mods for sale? No. Only about 15 people were even part of the program, let me repeat that, *FIFTEEN*, so for people like you to say that people like me are greedy and entitled, when we DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING, that's the truly heart breaking part.

I was merely upset and disappointed over the fact that, for the briefest moment, the POSSIBILITY of some kind of return system existed, and it was so vilified, and so hated, that you guys decided to make, in large part, the mod-authors the target of that hate, and not bethesda and valve who were the ones that CREATED IT.

So again, when people like you say to people like me, "good riddance we don't need you", it just proves how disposable you think we are. You're happy to use our mods when we're offering, and just as readily are willing to throw us away without a second thought. You take us for granted, and that makes you nothing else but a selfish individual. And you say that I am the one with the disease?

I would say that anybody who posts comments like that, filled with hate, is the one with the disease. I haven't done anything. I didn't pull my mods from the Nexus. I didn't put any mods behind a paywall. Where did all this hate come from?

Musicdude132 wrote: "Some of you are calling end-users entitled brats for wanting something for nothing. I am calling all of you mod authors that wish to be financially compensated for your work entitled brats. When you started your project, large or small, you never envisioned being paid for you work. No matter what your motivation was, money was never one of them.

Once that possibility became a reality, suddenly you're entitled to compensation? Horseshit."

Well said.

I haven't been following this debacle, but I have seen some modders attacking users for "taking away their dream of making money off of mods" and in response will no longer be uploading free mods any more. How childish.

WightMage wrote: Personally, I think modders should be compensated at some point, but I agree that the end goal of modding should not be financial, for reasons stated over the past three news threads.

WightMage wrote: FavoredSoul, I get that the modders who joined the initial program (and were subsequently burned, both by users and Valve/Bethesda) were for the most part wrongly attacked, but I'm honestly confused as to how you can believe that mod-authors were vilified alone.

I've been watching these comments threads for six days too long, and from what I've seen, the hatred has passed from Valve/Bethesda, to SPECIFIC mod authors, back to Valve, back to Bethesda, stayed with Bethesda, back to Valve, and now that the system is dead, focused on mod users, many of whom were in fact DEFENDING the right of mod authors to get paid if they so wished. When people started attacking *you*, it was because you posted a reply that attacked mod users, who in turn thought that *you* were being entitled.

Do you see the problem here? This isn't helping anything. Anytime anyone creates a large post written entirely in the spirit of passion infused hatred, it just brews more hatred and we hear each other even less and less and yell more and more in response to being heard less.

It's only getting worse, and everyone involved with this riot mongering is culpable, even the OP of this thread. But from what I gather, he and several others like him only posted this because he felt he was being attacked, just as you did originally.

TL;DR, we all seriously need to get a drink together and talk about s#*! without throwing glasses at each other's face.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think the end goal if there is one for me is maybe getting a JOB out of it, not money. Not necessarily as a game designer but I find that what is my hobby actually allows me to learn a lot of skills.

A job (which modding can feel like sometimes) is about more than money, it is about realising your potential as a human being. What was offered was a job contract, and a lousy illegal one at that which had next to no protection for anyone except themselves and a few others.

Now I like to believe that there are some great people at both Beth and Val but with things the way they are in the world they are sometimes thrown into situations and make very bad decisions in the process. The problem with big business. This does not excuse what they did but it should not mean that there cannot be an open dialogue with them so as we can express our fears and concerns so that (as this is probably inevitable) we can find a compromise that we agree on. Authors and users alike. I think we must also argue that ending free modding altogether will be their undoing eventually.

Sorry I do not know you either and I have just mouthed off my opinions on your post but I just feel there are some deep issues here we need to get to grips with.

That's my 2 cents... or what ever the hell people are saying nowadays ;D

svanderwerf wrote: this is pretty much my entire problem with Valve's handing of this clusterfeic

They took an existing and very healthy community and did the one thing absolutely guaranteed to cause an ideological war. The level of mismanagement is staggering, and I'll be amazed if whoever was responsible for this debacle still has a job.

Wolvenlight wrote: Chido, I have to take FavoredSouls side here. Regardless of whether or not paid modding was a good idea overall, (and I personally think it wasn't,) the consumer portion of the Nexus was far more filled with extreme vitriol and hatred towards the paid authors, people who have given so much for free already. Very few mod authors who tried the paid workshop actually cared enough about being compensated to the point they wouldn't have modded in the first place. When presented with the option, they tried it. It did okay for some but ultimately failed. Many of them accepted that gracefully. Heck, it was always a possibility, quite a few games allow mods to be sold. Bethesda could always make that choice, and you know this is true, because they just did. However brief it was. And if your motivation is experience and a portfolio, then money is your motivation, simple as that.

When people like you attack them, calling them entitled brats, a disease, tell them how they should think, why they should do modding, (or anything,) as if you own the very concept... coming off to others as if you think you're so much better than them because you do it for free? (Not to be confused with "for nothing.") You prove everything the paid authors say against you and the people who first started this "war." Especially because you attacked first. I don't care how many mods you've made. I've never made one in my life and I'm on the paid authors side here. You think they're delusional? We don't need your mods either. We don't need you. Bethesda doesn't need you. There will always be other people. Your opinion isn't automatically better because you've made mods for free, or at all.

Also, no, nobody is going to replace them when they leave. People will come and go as they always have, but only you and your kind have chased good people away by being so dead set against not the system for it's flaws, but the innocent people who did nothing but fall outside your banner. We have lost their mods, their ideas, their concepts and assets because of the horrible things said by people like you. I like free mods, but I like fair, kind people a lot more. If I had to choose, I'd rather have a smaller more expensive modding community than a hate filled one. (Neither exist, but hey.)

Enough is enough. It's fine if you think it's a bad idea. Discuss it's flaws, rail against Bethesda, be logical, convince people. Don't hurt innocent people, and don't let jerks goad you.


Also, please learn how to use the word "entitled" correctly. I haven't seen anyone use it right once this entire fiasco.

Xazomn wrote: I would never pay for mods. Games and dlc's are expensive enough , let us not talk about cut to pieces micro dlc's for just a weapon or outfit. Why should i pay for mods that fix bugs that had to be solved by the game creator in the first place .
Most mods are made for themselfs they like to share, for the fun, for learning experience, realy,i wont pay for that.
Mods making my game intresting, sure , mods make the gameplay very intresting and makes me play longer with my games just like Skyrim . That game is 4 years now, other games even older. New games don't stay new. Why should i pay for mods that keep my old game intresting. If i need to pay 200 dollars for mods to keep a 4 year old game fun to play or even keep using mods that i already used and sudden need to pay for, well simple as that, i would buy a new game and put the rest into my pc and nothing into a old game and the mods.

As modder, for me it is the fun i got with the community, the learning experiences i get , i can show my thoughts,feelings ideas . I share my mods as others share them. To see my mods used in stories,comics or screens or companion mods means more to me then money.

MetalGearModder1155 wrote: You'll never know what you have until you don't have it anymore.

It's mainly to make a point about how, when an opportunity to make money vanished, people will complain, crash, and burn about how unfair it was that it was taken away... even if they were totally fine with pay-less modding, just to put on their resumé.

The same thing with the people who USE the mods... they have free mods from absurdly kind people in the community, but they don't even donate. What [else] happens (aside from the concern of crappy, low-quality content that might not even work) when that gets taken away? An uprising, and people LEARN what they had, as it's been taken away.

Personally, I'm too warm-hearted plenty of the time, so I end up feeling so bad when some good modder, such as FavoredSoul, gets up and leaves because no-one was appreciating them for their hard work. (AGAIN, Steam. Donate button, custom message from author. That'd fix so much.)

Yet, people don't seem to get that it was their fault for not actually giving credit to good modders for their work. Instead, when the modder even THINKS of taking advantage of the new system, they get bashed and beaten for wanting to feel accomplished for their work, thanks to worthless stacks of green paper.

May sound trite: but give damn credit where it's deserved. I mean, come on, SKSE and SkyUI both are very well-done. The SkyUI is eye-pleasing, fancy, and it's not terribly clunky either. SKSE... it allows you to create mods, basically.

Also, alter account was lost. Don't mind the post history.

Dragonfire12 wrote: Bethesda and Valve just killed the Goose that lays the Golden Egg. Modding has kept Skyrim and Oblivion, even Morowind, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, alive longer than they would have been otherwise. This means more sales of the games and DLC's. In that respect Bethesda has made money on modding.

I can understand Bethesda's motivations. It was Greed, they wanted to pocket some extra cash, from mod authors, plain and simple.

Funny thing about killing the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg. There is never any profit in it. Bethesda and Valve will never be able to undo what they have done. They have torn the modding community apart and set them against each other. Not only that, the rift will not have healed when Bethesda rolls out Fallout 4.

This has cost those fools money. The Goose is dead...

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ Dragonfire12
@ Xazomn

These are points very well made.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Your disgusting comment only prove how much "professional " jealousy could be between modders.
I'm also modding games from the Quake era but it NEVER occurred into my mind to blame others for their decisions.
You say, quote
"... thousand young bright minds will replace you " end of quote.
It ever occured in your mind that the young brilliant modders will also read your comment?
And maybe, just maybe, they will be not so happy to replace the loss?... being so brilliant? and seeing the treatment of a modder to another fellow modder?

And above all... you totally missed the point of FavoredSoul, you just used his statement to make some advertising to your "reputation", who knows, maybe someone will remember you, if they are not already forgotten you as a modder.

Again, just hate and hypocrisy...

@Dragon
The goose is dead indeed. Been stalking hot files, and to be honest nothing really new is on there. You have 3 boycott mods and an upload of Purity (which is a combination of files we already had on Nexus). Only 2 new mods as the Serena one and Double Jump.

I feel as if the modders have packed up. While I agreed with the boycott, the sheer venom I believe killed what they were defending. Sure, paid mods are gone. It seems free mods though are gone as well...

Could just be a slow week and I am over exaggerating too.

[Xavathos]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24828134, #24828199 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot. Edited April 30, 2015 by Xavathos

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and I that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces. Edited April 30, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[greggorypeccary]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure there are many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)

CaladanAnduril wrote: I'm afraid that the damage done this days is irrecuperable.

Maybe you don't know who Rickerhk is or what Project Brazil is ( the entire team lead by Thaiauxin managed to create something unique in the Fallout universe and in the modding community, an entire new universe, the word total conversion is too small to define their creation and I'm speaking from someone point of view who reached a peak in Fallout modding).
This fellow modder helped me in a critical moment, out of the blue, with lipsync ( and those who knows how cumbersome and boring is that operation AND for hundreds of spoken lines ! ).
To bring this kind of man to the point to wrote " Not making mod for haters"... believe me, it's a painful loss for the "community".

And this truly extraordinary modder has a great influence on other...

I fear not of those modders who, with flames and noises, will announce that will hide their modes... I fear those who quietly, without big bangs, will leave the scene for ever, migrating to other horizons.

I respect any mod maker, no matter of size and scope, because I know exactly the amount of dedication and excitement is involved in the creation process.
No matter you created a nail mod, a quest and adventure mod or an armor or weapon mod, you invested your time, soul and money ( energy bill could go quite high :( ) to CREATE something.
No one from this haters will EVER understand the damage done by an UNENDORSEMENT button click when some idiotic request is not fulfilled by the author.

We will see the results in the following weeks...

CaladanAnduril wrote: A drop of normality in an OCEAN of hate...
Thank you for your point, that's what is sad me most, those people are simply engulfed in the torrent of other rage.

FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this. Edited April 30, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[rickerhk]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and I that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

@greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

[lFostelR]

In response to post #24827544.

lereddit wrote: Phew, we fought for the good cause and won.

Sad for the modders we have lost in the aftermath but we did it.

We can be proud for not just bending over to Valve and Bethesda.

You "won" and you're "proud"?
Fair enough but try to remember one thing, this "war" you fought was never against Valve or Bethesda, neither of them were harmed in the slightest. Every user which was up in arms, will continue to support them by using their service, and buying their products. Your great "victory" was over the people who have freely and willingly given to this "community".
Enjoy your spoils
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65261

[TUHD]

In response to post #24817394. #24817499, #24817884, #24822954, #24824369 are all replies on the same post.

acidzebra wrote:

 

In response to post #24817199.

acidzebra wrote:

Skyrim itself was pretty broken at first but I've yet to have an issue with their dlc. So yeah I have seen non-buggy Beth products.

This is kind of a crude way to go about it. I've no idea how to mod and yet I should pay someone to, intentionally or not, break my game? I mean if it breaks and I hadn't paid for it, yeah that's on me. If it breaks after I spent $5 for it? I hardly think it's a consumer issue at that point.

 

 

There are many well-known bugs in all the DLCs. That you haven't encountered them doesn't mean they don't exist. Look over the relevant USKP for the DLCs sometime. You'll be amazed at the stuff that slipped through QA.

 

A mod maker's "responsibility" is to ensure the mod works well with the original product, it is not his job to ensure the mod plays nice with the entire ecosystem of mods. It's an impossibility; like I said there are too many possible combinations. There is such a thing as consumer responsibility.

 

If something you bought doesn't work, ask for a refund. That's not unreasonable. Unreasonable is expecting all mods to work with all other mods, paid for or not.

UberSmaug wrote: Its is similar to if you bought a charger for your phone. You cant be upset that it doesn't also charge your electric razor as well.

tirekyll wrote: Actually it's not similar to that at all. It's close to buying a phone, installing two separate apps, then find out one app causes issues with the other and bricks your entire phone. The person at fault for that isn't the consumer when there were no warnings that the apps couldn't be used on the same phone. Especially bad when the apps are paid for. There needs to be more quality control and assurance that all the apps coincide, largely for the fact that it likely wouldn't be hard to brick a smartphone.

dewguru wrote: @tirekyll

In your phone example, I would view the responsibility to be on the consumer. People too often run and install things without reading up on things, and if a consumer somehow mixes two programs that sink their phone, then hopefully they'll learn their lesson. Apps, like mods, can't track every single available other app out there to see what may or may not cause issues. That leaves it as the consumer's responsibility to protect themselves, and if they're installing two apps that do similar things or utilize similar components, then they're accepting a level or risk.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think demanding quality control and up to scratch programming IS the customer protecting themselves.

I'm on the edge. I understand where you're coming from, but nonetheless personally I find the statement wrong.
1) Because QA must ensure the mod on itself is stable and can't cause errors, even if assets are shared. At least it must be so if you're bringing out a to-pay for mod.
2) Steam is notoriously bad in complying with refunds. Even if the product you payed for doesn't work.

[asmodan]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and I that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

[Xavathos]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and I that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

@ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)