block2001 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24783529. #24783794, #24784034, #24784134, #24784384, #24784604 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote block2001 wrote: Quote Azradun wrote: Yes, a wake-up call. Provide something for free without any remorse for years, and the moment someone wags a huge wad of cash under your nose, yell and demand that you want instant recompensation for your work, never mind the artificially inflated prices which make it 4 times bigger for the end user. Then call these users "entitled assholes" for not wanting to pay 4 times the cash to corporate coffers for items that had a lot of problems from the beginning. Quote block2001 wrote: @Azra Why are you so close minded, I get it you don't like change, I get it you don't want to pay for your mods because the have "always been this way" I get it you're selfish, so am I and many others. It doesn't make the statement about being entitled assholes any different than before. Because it has been this way before you..rather we feel entitled to it and that mod authors have no right to demand anything, but seriously take a step back and get beyond your own selfishness and really look at it objectively especially from many mod authors perspectives.I will agree though that the current system that was set up was very flawed, that much is true but the amount of hate directed to these mod authors who opted into the system is really unacceptable. If people really had a problem with how the system was set up rather than the idea for paying for mods, then why attack the authors? Quote Divaad wrote: Entitled assholes?I've been modding for about 8+ years I started with oblivion I moved on to fallout NV and then to Skyrim and while I hate the idea that modders do all this work and get very little or even nothing back from it bothers me something rotten. However I have never had the money to just blow on modding, to this day I can't afford to donate to things when I want too because I think it's right and this mess had the chance to take one of my favorite things away from me.If this had stuck then many of the best mods would be behind paywalls and I would no longer have access to one of my favourite hobbies hell I'm learning to code as we speak so I can get to modding something I've wanted in skyrim for a while. I can't afford to just buy mods especially when they're as expensive as they were which would've meant I couldn't have accessed to the best mods out there.Am I an entitled asshole? Maybe, was I worried and angry that someone could put so little thought into separating me from something I adore? f*#@ing hell yes. If this was really a move for the community they wouldn't have taken such a big cut they would've taken something to help with server maintenance and paying the legal bills of setting it up to begin with. I understand how some people may have been scared off but those people should've thought far more than they apparently did about what they were doing before they did it. Quote bullpcp wrote: Modders provided mods for free without the option to get recompense for years. Some users seem to fit the description of entitled. If you don't fit the description then don't get offended. People who have become accustomed to getting free mods, and are unwilling or unable to pay, would be disadvantaged by a change while those willing to create quality content that people willing and able to pay for it would benefit. Different subdivisions of the modding community would benefit and be disadvantaged. Quote jedi 99 wrote: While I agree that it would be awesome for mod authors to make money off their hard work, valves way of doing it was just not very well laid out. I hoped that they would rework the whole idea instead of scrapping it entirely so we would get a working model sometime in the future.I think the biggest problem about this all is valves no responsibility approach. As long as mods are free the consumers don't have any expectations. But the moment you pay for something you want a guarantee that you get support if something doesn't work. Though valves and bethesdas approach was that even though they make money off it that they don't take any responsibility on whether the mod works, will keep working etc. So as a user after the 24h you are practically on your own if anything goes wrong, cause nobody has any responsibility to support you. So if a modder decides to abandon his mod again, or sell a different version, or a mod breaks through a mod or game update, its on the user, not the valve, not bethesda and not the author. So I definetly understand that the users did not like this model, I just wish that they would have taken a more useful approach to voice their concerns.@jedi I completely agree, the system that was set up definetly was very broken and had too many issues. It is an example of a great idea that was poorly executed and honestly I believe that if it was given time something better would have come from it. Of course we may not see it come into fruition anytime soon now that the pulled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loshirai14 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) It would be sad to see free mods suddenly become paid mods :( Edited April 29, 2015 by Loshirai14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolvenlight Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24784749. #24784999 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phantompally76 wrote: Quote phantompally76 wrote: I know you couldn't. That's why I put it in there. You didn't let me down.develop*Sorry, I had to. You're such a stickler for grammar I couldn't resist.As an edit, let me play the other side of the fence. "Sure, we can try something like this out. Just know that you must also log all your hours to differentiate between when you're testing and when you're playing for enjoyment. This won't really matter though, as it will instead be based on the number of bugs you find instead of a per hour rate, (commission instead of hourly, as it were.) The rate can be negotiated, but I recommend about 50 cents per bug you find. You must also be the first to find the bug, though we will be open to paying those after you if your report is shoddy. Oh, and you obviously must pay for the mod first for the privilege of working with them. $9.99 is an exaggeration, and I think we both know that, but I admire your tenacity.We look forward to hearing from you in the future. We'll hash out the details of what constitutes a bug in future messages." Edited April 29, 2015 by Wolvenlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantompally76 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24784749. #24784879 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phantompally76 wrote: Quote Wolvenlight wrote: develop*Sorry, I had to. You're such a stickler for grammar I couldn't resist.I know you couldn't. That's why I put it in there. You didn't let me down. Edited April 29, 2015 by phantompally76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolvenlight Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24784799. Reveal hidden contents Quote Loshirai14 wrote: I can't help but agree with this. It does seem rather unfair to stop support on an older version of something just because you're charging for the newer version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolvenlight Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24784099. #24784289 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote ReconTA wrote: Quote bullpcp wrote: "It took 1 entire day for the Skyrim community to be hit by this bad idea. The maker of SkyUI, the most popular SKyrim mod in its history announced he wouldn’t support it anymore and was going to be making a pay only version for the future."I would just like to point out that this modder would not have otherwise updated his mod at all. Essentially the paid for option presented a mod that otherwise would not have existed.These are all fantastic points and I agree with every single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolvenlight Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24784749. #24784879, #24784999 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phantompally76 wrote: Quote Wolvenlight wrote: develop*Sorry, I had to. You're such a stickler for grammar I couldn't resist.As an edit, let me play the other side of the fence. "Sure, we can try something like this out. Just know that you must also log all your hours to differentiate between when you're testing and when you're playing for enjoyment. This won't really matter though, as it will instead be based on the number of bugs you find instead of a per hour rate, (commission instead of hourly, as it were.) The rate can be negotiated, but I recommend about 50 cents per bug you find. You must also be the first to find the bug, though we will be open to paying those after you if your report is shoddy. Oh, and you obviously must pay for the mod first for the privilege of working with them. $9.99 is an exaggeration, and I think we both know that, but I admire your tenacity.We look forward to hearing from you in the future. We'll hash out the details of what constitutes a bug in future messages." Quote phantompally76 wrote: I know you couldn't. That's why I put it in there. You didn't let me down.Always happy to make your day. If I didn't do it, someone might have thought you spelled it wrong on accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyairgunner Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24783529. #24783794, #24784034, #24784134, #24784384, #24784604, #24784779 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote block2001 wrote: Quote Azradun wrote: Yes, a wake-up call. Provide something for free without any remorse for years, and the moment someone wags a huge wad of cash under your nose, yell and demand that you want instant recompensation for your work, never mind the artificially inflated prices which make it 4 times bigger for the end user. Then call these users "entitled assholes" for not wanting to pay 4 times the cash to corporate coffers for items that had a lot of problems from the beginning. Quote block2001 wrote: @Azra Why are you so close minded, I get it you don't like change, I get it you don't want to pay for your mods because the have "always been this way" I get it you're selfish, so am I and many others. It doesn't make the statement about being entitled assholes any different than before. Because it has been this way before you..rather we feel entitled to it and that mod authors have no right to demand anything, but seriously take a step back and get beyond your own selfishness and really look at it objectively especially from many mod authors perspectives.I will agree though that the current system that was set up was very flawed, that much is true but the amount of hate directed to these mod authors who opted into the system is really unacceptable. If people really had a problem with how the system was set up rather than the idea for paying for mods, then why attack the authors? Quote Divaad wrote: Entitled assholes?I've been modding for about 8+ years I started with oblivion I moved on to fallout NV and then to Skyrim and while I hate the idea that modders do all this work and get very little or even nothing back from it bothers me something rotten. However I have never had the money to just blow on modding, to this day I can't afford to donate to things when I want too because I think it's right and this mess had the chance to take one of my favorite things away from me.If this had stuck then many of the best mods would be behind paywalls and I would no longer have access to one of my favourite hobbies hell I'm learning to code as we speak so I can get to modding something I've wanted in skyrim for a while. I can't afford to just buy mods especially when they're as expensive as they were which would've meant I couldn't have accessed to the best mods out there.Am I an entitled asshole? Maybe, was I worried and angry that someone could put so little thought into separating me from something I adore? f*#@ing hell yes. If this was really a move for the community they wouldn't have taken such a big cut they would've taken something to help with server maintenance and paying the legal bills of setting it up to begin with. I understand how some people may have been scared off but those people should've thought far more than they apparently did about what they were doing before they did it. Quote bullpcp wrote: Modders provided mods for free without the option to get recompense for years. Some users seem to fit the description of entitled. If you don't fit the description then don't get offended. People who have become accustomed to getting free mods, and are unwilling or unable to pay, would be disadvantaged by a change while those willing to create quality content that people willing and able to pay for it would benefit. Different subdivisions of the modding community would benefit and be disadvantaged. Quote jedi 99 wrote: While I agree that it would be awesome for mod authors to make money off their hard work, valves way of doing it was just not very well laid out. I hoped that they would rework the whole idea instead of scrapping it entirely so we would get a working model sometime in the future.I think the biggest problem about this all is valves no responsibility approach. As long as mods are free the consumers don't have any expectations. But the moment you pay for something you want a guarantee that you get support if something doesn't work. Though valves and bethesdas approach was that even though they make money off it that they don't take any responsibility on whether the mod works, will keep working etc. So as a user after the 24h you are practically on your own if anything goes wrong, cause nobody has any responsibility to support you. So if a modder decides to abandon his mod again, or sell a different version, or a mod breaks through a mod or game update, its on the user, not the valve, not bethesda and not the author. So I definetly understand that the users did not like this model, I just wish that they would have taken a more useful approach to voice their concerns. Quote block2001 wrote: @jedi I completely agree, the system that was set up definetly was very broken and had too many issues. It is an example of a great idea that was poorly executed and honestly I believe that if it was given time something better would have come from it. Of course we may not see it come into fruition anytime soon now that the pulled it. I'm late to the party but I have to reply to this.I think people may have not acted like such "entitled assholes" if valve/bethesda had picked a game that implemented an improved version of this system from the start.You can't take a 4 year old game like skyrim and say we want to start charging you for all these delicious mods you've been getting freely,F-You community that's been built around this free mod syastem.The smartest thing these greedy assholes could do,would be to finally release Half Life 3 with a glorious suite of mod tools and then roll out a paid mod system. genius idea or meh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberSmaug Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) ok had some thought on Theft and Quality Assurance, Just some thought not a full theory so go easy I want serious constructive feedback on this. What if when a mod made an update, the users would have the option of a refund again for say the next 24-72 hours. If a mod breaks down you can opt out until it was fixed. In this case the full refund is charged to the authors steam account. Bethesda and Valve keep their cut. I think this both encourages customer service. and honest practices. If you steal someone's work and get caught... you will pay. If you are lazy and abuse your users... you will pay. Edited April 29, 2015 by UberSmaug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeinSchatten01 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24784749. #24784879, #24784999, #24785264 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phantompally76 wrote: Quote Wolvenlight wrote: develop*Sorry, I had to. You're such a stickler for grammar I couldn't resist.As an edit, let me play the other side of the fence. "Sure, we can try something like this out. Just know that you must also log all your hours to differentiate between when you're testing and when you're playing for enjoyment. This won't really matter though, as it will instead be based on the number of bugs you find instead of a per hour rate, (commission instead of hourly, as it were.) The rate can be negotiated, but I recommend about 50 cents per bug you find. You must also be the first to find the bug, though we will be open to paying those after you if your report is shoddy. Oh, and you obviously must pay for the mod first for the privilege of working with them. $9.99 is an exaggeration, and I think we both know that, but I admire your tenacity.We look forward to hearing from you in the future. We'll hash out the details of what constitutes a bug in future messages." Quote phantompally76 wrote: I know you couldn't. That's why I put it in there. You didn't let me down. Quote Wolvenlight wrote: Always happy to make your day. If I didn't do it, someone might have thought you spelled it wrong on accident.So... if I buy a mod and apply as a paid mod user for that mod... is the mod free again? Or is my money slowly bleeding out into Valve&Beth pockets? This is so confusing. o_O Edited April 29, 2015 by Sein_Schatten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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