Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

[WightMage]

In response to post #24900869. #24904704 is also a reply to the same post.

SoMteam wrote: What we need is a second video game crash. Otherwise the greed will ruin the fun of games entirely. The comments in this thread back me up on this.

Taiolu wrote: Soon. The games+ thing hipster indies are doing, the ban from games feature valve is doing, and gamergate with its autoblocker thing going will all combine into a storm of hellfire into an autoblocker for games. Consoles will become nonexistant with the turn of quantum computers and all that will be left is a sea of pure chaos that sweeps videogames to death. Compatibility with these games will not be bothered by the likes of microsoft, nvidia may likely perish. In the end of the storm may come a day, a game on par with doom in terms of beginnings, and the chaos will cease and form an even better method of video games. Time shall have passed where virtual realty lets you even smell the air around you. All will be well, there just needs to be a big enough shitstorm first.

More likely, the gaming industry's bubble will just burst, ruining most of the largest ones and a few indie companies, just like the housing market. It'll recover, of course, but not for awhile.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24900869. #24904704, #24905524 are all replies on the same post.

SoMteam wrote: What we need is a second video game crash. Otherwise the greed will ruin the fun of games entirely. The comments in this thread back me up on this.

Taiolu wrote: Soon. The games+ thing hipster indies are doing, the ban from games feature valve is doing, and gamergate with its autoblocker thing going will all combine into a storm of hellfire into an autoblocker for games. Consoles will become nonexistant with the turn of quantum computers and all that will be left is a sea of pure chaos that sweeps videogames to death. Compatibility with these games will not be bothered by the likes of microsoft, nvidia may likely perish. In the end of the storm may come a day, a game on par with doom in terms of beginnings, and the chaos will cease and form an even better method of video games. Time shall have passed where virtual realty lets you even smell the air around you. All will be well, there just needs to be a big enough shitstorm first.

WightMage wrote: More likely, the gaming industry's bubble will just burst, ruining most of the largest ones and a few indie companies, just like the housing market. It'll recover, of course, but not for awhile.

I wish there was a way to bury all those cash-grab mods in the New Mexico desert....

[Vesuvius1745]

In response to post #24900869. #24904704, #24905524, #24905659 are all replies on the same post.

SoMteam wrote: What we need is a second video game crash. Otherwise the greed will ruin the fun of games entirely. The comments in this thread back me up on this.

Taiolu wrote: Soon. The games+ thing hipster indies are doing, the ban from games feature valve is doing, and gamergate with its autoblocker thing going will all combine into a storm of hellfire into an autoblocker for games. Consoles will become nonexistant with the turn of quantum computers and all that will be left is a sea of pure chaos that sweeps videogames to death. Compatibility with these games will not be bothered by the likes of microsoft, nvidia may likely perish. In the end of the storm may come a day, a game on par with doom in terms of beginnings, and the chaos will cease and form an even better method of video games. Time shall have passed where virtual realty lets you even smell the air around you. All will be well, there just needs to be a big enough shitstorm first.

WightMage wrote: More likely, the gaming industry's bubble will just burst, ruining most of the largest ones and a few indie companies, just like the housing market. It'll recover, of course, but not for awhile.

phantompally76 wrote: I wish there was a way to bury all those cash-grab mods in the New Mexico desert....

Nice E.T. reference.

Atari rushed the programmers to get that cartridge on the shelves before Christmas, and the rest is history. We certainly see a lot of that today, and nobody learns from the mistakes of the past. It's about money money money profit profit profit.

[Blademaster1215]

In response to post #24900869. #24904704, #24905524, #24905659, #24906294 are all replies on the same post.

SoMteam wrote: What we need is a second video game crash. Otherwise the greed will ruin the fun of games entirely. The comments in this thread back me up on this.

Taiolu wrote: Soon. The games+ thing hipster indies are doing, the ban from games feature valve is doing, and gamergate with its autoblocker thing going will all combine into a storm of hellfire into an autoblocker for games. Consoles will become nonexistant with the turn of quantum computers and all that will be left is a sea of pure chaos that sweeps videogames to death. Compatibility with these games will not be bothered by the likes of microsoft, nvidia may likely perish. In the end of the storm may come a day, a game on par with doom in terms of beginnings, and the chaos will cease and form an even better method of video games. Time shall have passed where virtual realty lets you even smell the air around you. All will be well, there just needs to be a big enough shitstorm first.

WightMage wrote: More likely, the gaming industry's bubble will just burst, ruining most of the largest ones and a few indie companies, just like the housing market. It'll recover, of course, but not for awhile.

phantompally76 wrote: I wish there was a way to bury all those cash-grab mods in the New Mexico desert....

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Nice E.T. reference.

Atari rushed the programmers to get that cartridge on the shelves before Christmas, and the rest is history. We certainly see a lot of that today, and nobody learns from the mistakes of the past. It's about money money money profit profit profit.

AVGN movie was rather well timed on this one considering that reference....

[Enidehalas]

In response to post #24882324. #24883664, #24905379 are all replies on the same post.

strudo wrote:

I feel the donation system as it stands is flawed in that any suggestion of donating appears during the download phase, before it's even been played. I'd hazard that people aren't likely to want to donate for a mod they haven't even commenced downloading yet, and once it parts of the extensive list of mods, tracking down a particular mod on Nexus to donate probably doesn't get a look in.

I'd like to see the mod managers get on board, offering the option there of donating. Perhaps a function that can list mods sorted by length of time installed, which would offer users a method of seeing which of their list of mods have 'stood the test of time' so to speak, and are worthy of revisiting on the Nexus and making a donation.

MO has an icon for not endorsed mods. Maybe an icon for not donated (that can just be cleared manually, or the ability to highlight a mod with a donate reminder (for mod users in their individual mod manager, not by mod authors to apply to all downloads of their mod). The point being it needs to be something in the mod manager, since the donate options on Nexus only get seen when visiting the site, which occurs much less frequently when actually playing the content which is under consideration for donations.

jbvertexx wrote: I agree. Donating at download is not the time and place.

I like the list of mods that you have previously downloaded that pops up once in a while. Perhaps offer the option to endorse and donate in this list. It is a good, well placed, and well timed reminder.

strudo wrote: It would be a great start there, but still requires the user to visit the Nexus site to see that list. Once a player has got their mod setup running and ready to play, they will visit the Nexus far less frequently, and hence not see the messages.

I use MO, so not sure how NMM works, but I need to start MO every time I play, so a reminder there would be the perfect place.

I think the "donate" at the download page is mostly to make the option known. You will never give anything to anyone before even playing, of course, but when you come back to endorse, you will know the option exists, and you have it in mind during the whole playthru.

That's when to remind people. Everybody who donate, endorse too, none who doesn't endorse, donate

[Enidehalas]

In response to post #24893994. #24894334, #24895424, #24895624, #24897434, #24900349, #24901119 are all replies on the same post.

fearalice wrote: Not to undermine the big news post made by someone with authority/power (sorry, but i am not social enough on this site to know who ".Dark0ne" is, nor any other names that have been tossed around), but when an issue like this comes up that many people feel strongly about it's not going to immediately quiet down with a "Okay everyone, it's done lets move on". Some are still not happy with the aftermath. Some are still concerned with "Okay, steam and bethesda backed off for now, but what's next?". It's basically like ACTA and all of it's incarnations. This one failed, now they'll try again, and again, and again until the public outcry isn't strong enough for them to have to retract it again and then bam, it's basically written in stone from that point on.

For one, i love mods. They make good games great, and incomplete/broken games playable. But the best part is they are free. Bethesda put out a largely flawed game missing tons and with plenty to be fixed. This is evidenced by the existence of the unofficial skyrim patch, dawnguard patch, hearthfire patch... See a trend? Even their DLC has glaring issues they didn't even bother to fix. So give it ten years, when paid modding is the norm and we have lazy, greedy developers who put out just enough to be modded then work on dlc. Then we have to spend another 60 dollars through mods to get the game to how it should be. All the while the developers/steam will be seeing profits off of all 120+ dollars it takes to play a game. All it will do is promote piracy further, and i'm pretty sure that's something developers, vendors, and modders who charge for their content do not want.

I'm not even going to get into the flaws of the system, since this post is not about that.

My reason for typing all this up even though it'll likely get burried and read by next to no one is that i feel the ONLY way to show just how much against this we (who are against it anyway) are is to keep voicing it. If Steam's most recent attempt to see how much further into our wallets they can dig is met with massive resistance that just dies out as soon as it's redacted temporarily, it's just going to be that much faster that the next attempt comes around.

I know there are a lot who do disagree with this view point, and that's okay. But to just say "Okay guys, lets move on" and to just drop it would be a mistake, sorry for disagreeing with the OP on this.

-Edited to remove obnoxious smiley

WightMage wrote: FYI: Dark0ne, also known as "Robin Scott," is the founder and owner of the Nexus. (his name is at the bottom)

Good points though.

DCWillis wrote: We already have game producers ripping content from the games so they can sell it as dlc material. Angry Joe points this out often on his youtube videos. So they have already turned a $60 game into $75 - $100 and paid mods just makes it worse.

I was so fired up by the upcoming E3 that I have a sticky note on the edge of my screen to insure I did not miss it. Not that hyped anymore and if TES6 is announced I will not buy it straight away. The game will be mediocre without mods and if they make them paid mods, they can keep the game.

Fowldragon wrote: If you look at the 3 preceeding blog pieces and take those comments into account, There has been a significant exchange of opinion position and unintended emoticons...

Your post will sit here for a LONG time with a large number of people reading it...Nobody has abandoned their positions...everyone though is moving on...

Tyerial12 wrote: @DCWillis i second that.. if it goes to a full paid to get mods and have to buy the game they can keep it.

or maybe ill just play it vannila depending how bugged it is

jacquelope wrote: I think the author meant move on as in stop bashing the mod authors, Bethesda, etc. and get on with being fans. I don't think the OP meant stop crusading against paid mods.

Bashing them or raging in general, won't solve anything. We're just kicking the ghost of a dead horse. However you're right on one thing: the price of preventing the dominance of paid mods is ETERNAL VIGILANCE. We do need to send Bethesda a message that we won't patronize paid mods. That works far better than just bashing. Spamming Steam Workshop with ASCII pictures of tanks and all that stuff, was counter productive. It threatened to make Valve look like the victim of a wild internet riot. At a certain point it makes people turn off and decide "hey maybe the paid mod idea is right, these opposition guys are IRRATIONAL." Most of all, Gabe Newell has a free speech policy on his site (as evidenced by the ASCII tank nonsense) - a riot like what he faced right on Steam Workshop could be a huge message to other companies: FREE SPEECH IS BAD, M'K?

The angry calls to Valve did cost them a lot of money and on that I'm ambivalent. How do you cost them millions without coming across as a bunch of Internet ruffians? Still, that worked. (However I hope people aren't still doing that.)

We should take a page from the Sims fanbase playbook. Paid mods exist for the Sims franchise (well, technically they're locked up behind paid subscription sites) but they are rare in that community, or at least they don't dominate (see: ModTheSims and NRAAS). There's been four generations of Sims games so far and paid mods (or, mods hosted behind paysites) have never risen to dominance. How did they do that? What can we learn from their strategy? Their success offers an answer to what message we should send ALL gaming companies who are pondering this move.

Riprock wrote: yes, I do disagree. And I disagree because the alternative is to keep picking the scab in a descending spiral. We either move on or we live this moment forever, bringing up old argument again and again and again and starting the same misconceptions again and again and arguing those same misunderstood things again and again. Once was enough for me.

It happened, nobody's really happy with the outcome, people are mad for...reasons...and people will do what they are gonna do regardless of more verbose explanations and exclamations. been there done that, the world still spins.

I'm pretty sure the next Bethesda big game will be Fallout 4, not TES6, especially not after this fiasco

[soupdragon1234]

I'm pretty sure the next Bethesda big game will be Fallout 4, not TES6, especially not after this fiasco

 

 

Games have such a long development cycle time that a storm in a teacup such as this will have no bearing on it. Pay mods will come and since authors work is apparently "worthless" it simply removes any sense of guilt they might have felt about monetizing them.

 

Good luck guys and don't look back. :thumbsup:

[retnav98]

In response to post #24907724.

soupdragon1234 wrote:

I'm pretty sure the next Bethesda big game will be Fallout 4, not TES6, especially not after this fiasco

 

 

Games have such a long development cycle time that a storm in a teacup such as this will have no bearing on it. Pay mods will come and since authors work is apparently "worthless" it simply removes any sense of guilt they might have felt about monetizing them.

 

Good luck guys and don't look back. :thumbsup:

Skyrim is a GAME...that has exceeded its shelflife. I watch the feedback from the Valve announcement .nearing 5000 responses to the " We STILL think there are good ideas here" Yada yada yada. The commenters may have had Console copies of Skyrim.. I did, and then I purchased the game 2 more times for PC and spent 2 more years playing and modding. The majority of response posts come from people who have little to NO recent involvement with the PC game.

So who are they? Who is screaming one minute and then offering their new-found respect the next? I'd say that there was some dastardly agenda afoot if it weren't for the simple truth...TESV has reached 8% of it's original sale price; Its time is past as Games go.

It'll be hard NOT to look back..

[Nazenn]

(and a big "what the heck, guys?" to those of you who sent in an application without telling me what your Nexus username is in your application...duh!!!) .

I think thats given me the biggest laugh I've had in a long time. XD

Edited May 3, 2015 by Nazenn

[Enidehalas]

In response to post #24907724. #24908549 is also a reply to the same post.

soupdragon1234 wrote:

I'm pretty sure the next Bethesda big game will be Fallout 4, not TES6, especially not after this fiasco

 

 

Games have such a long development cycle time that a storm in a teacup such as this will have no bearing on it. Pay mods will come and since authors work is apparently "worthless" it simply removes any sense of guilt they might have felt about monetizing them.

 

Good luck guys and don't look back. :thumbsup:

retnav98 wrote: Skyrim is a GAME...that has exceeded its shelflife. I watch the feedback from the Valve announcement .nearing 5000 responses to the " We STILL think there are good ideas here" Yada yada yada. The commenters may have had Console copies of Skyrim.. I did, and then I purchased the game 2 more times for PC and spent 2 more years playing and modding. The majority of response posts come from people who have little to NO recent involvement with the PC game.

So who are they? Who is screaming one minute and then offering their new-found respect the next? I'd say that there was some dastardly agenda afoot if it weren't for the simple truth...TESV has reached 8% of it's original sale price; Its time is past as Games go.

It'll be hard NOT to look back..

Should have been more clear, but I meant "the next big game Bethesda will annonce". And I think it will be fallout 4 exactly because of developpement times (makes more sense than TES6, it must be around pre alpha, not enough for public annoncement)

And I think this fiasco does have an impact, not on the release date, but on the annoncement date. I'm pretty sure FO4 was to be annonced in E3 soon, with or without paid mods (but I'm pretty sure there WILL BE paid mods), and they just wanted to get the backlash early with an "old game". This will make the annoncements schedule/strategy a bit different I think. They can't afford bad publicity.

It's a good portion of the difference between "a game that sold in big piles" like Oblivion, and a game that sold in "OMFGWTF CRAPLOAD of piles" like skyrim