rizon72 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 For me its all about what the subject is. I have some left-leaning things I support, as well as right-leaning. Its something I think most of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhyde8984 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Anyone who picks a side before hearing the issue is a hindrance to efficient compromise, and a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Personally I think politics is an entirely human condition and therefore will always have conflict with our primal nature. As with many philosophical ideas, left and right wing politics make up a circle rather than a finite line. More specifically I feel I would like to point out that the UK is a country built on immigration. I also find the 'point based system' contentious because many UK citizens (myself included) might not meet the specifications to live in our own country. This is a part of the concept of globalisation that many people seem to forget. There is no longer an us and the rest of the world... There will come a time when many people from countries who have spent generations there may have to go and find work where they are needed or work by proxy for absolute peanuts. I hazard this may give an additional perspective of a system based on points. That isn't to say a system of human-resource allocation isn't how things are or even should be. The main issue seems to be that the rules are forever rigged in favour of a few to the detriment of the many - a pattern that appears to flow throughout nature. The human spirit is both a beautiful and ugly animal. Alas, we do not know the end to our story and the world is full of compassion and kindness as well as aggression and malice. ... If I had to guess, I would say choices are either a two tier totalitarian society (Brave New World) or climate change will cast civilisation back in time while 'the elite' all die in bunkers and/or spaceships. Meanwhile there is the slim chance we can get some robots and embryos to a 'twin' planet and try it all, all over again! (Songs of Distant Earth) Watch this space in the next 2000 years or so... :D Well, it's either those and/or the bomb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 A points based immigration system can be used to stop people coming in who have skills we already have an abundance off, it's stops an oversupply of workers driving wages and living standards down. Of course none of this would apply to UK citizens, where you get the idea that it would is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 In addition to abundance it is also true we have many people with skills we may no longer have enough demand for, many of these jobs may be both high and low skilled, however UK citizens are currently very expensive to employ and they are also way too expensive to retrain. These jobs still need doing however and hence the displacement of labour over the decades as the UK job market transformed and left many people behind (closure of mines, hard industries and manufacturing...) One example of labor displacement is our export of financial services, my cousin, for example, is able to have much more opportunit, mobility and success, working abroad for exported British and foreign banks. A similar situation is the horrendous conditions in farming where so much of our food is now imported on the cheap which leads to farmers having to export and sell more... on the cheap! There are foreign economies where these skilled farmers could relocate to, where land is cheaper and farming more industrial and so could make a great deal more relative wealth than here. All of this is very hard for us though because Britain has not been a migrationary country since the collonial days... in many ways we have become a little too comfortable, as other parts of the world have more than caught up with us. The job market is changing and globalisation is transforming the world beyond our comprehension. The only real salvage is how the internet can spread labour accross the world by proxy. I can live in the UK but work for an American company (many of us do)... HOWEVER I may no longer expect the UK government to watch my back and ensure I get health insurance, a pension, equal work rights etc... etc... especially when more people are being 'lifted' out of tax. This is exactly why the Valvethesda outsourcing through the 'User Generated Content' fiasco was such a big deal! Have a little read of this: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 One of the UK's biggest problem is the lack of investment in skills and education, it's an area that has been neglected for decades. Yeah retraining people is expensive but it's cheaper than leaving them to rot on welfare, instead of bashing people for not taking jobs that don't exist they should be providing training so they have the skills necessary to enter the job market or work for themselves. It's utter madness to have two million people (real figure is probably double that) on welfare while we import unskilled or low skilled workers, it's idiocy that can be corrected with a points system, low and unskilled immigrants can be kept out while skilled ones welcomed. Â In an economy as large as the UKs there should be little reason for people to migrate, the fact that people are tells us something is very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I pretty much agree on all of that except I am still wary that by only letting certain people enter the country (people with money usually) may just exasperate the problem we already have where an ever growing elitist class, that really only see poor people (which is relatively most of us) as slaves to thier bank accounts. I think a fairer system may have be a 'point system' of sorts but one that let a wider demographic emmigrate here while keeping it transparent so we don't just end up with a country run by billionaires and cheap labour. These things need to be rationally and openly discussed more widely because I worry that 'immigration control' could just become a false flag, where the government can say 'hey look we are fixing the issue' but are actually NOT addressing the real problems like you describe, transport, education, energy, pensions, health etc... etc... The real crux of this is however, is that we already have quite a comprehensive immigration policy but it is just used and perverted to the will of those in power. I think there is a real conflict of interests, not only here, but in the 'developed' world generally. Money-driven big business banking seems to have crushed and replaced many of our human values and has all but scraped our souls out from the bottom of the deepest barrel. I only hope it's not all too late! :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVd-zAXACrU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I pretty much agree on all of that except I am still wary that by only letting certain people enter the country (people with money usually) may just exasperate the problem we already have where an ever growing elitist class, that really only see poor people (which is relatively most of us) as slaves to thier bank accounts. I think a fairer system may have be a 'point system' of sorts but one that let a wider demographic emmigrate here while keeping it transparent so we don't just end up with a country run by billionaires and cheap labour. These things need to be rationally and openly discussed more widely because I worry that 'immigration control' could just become a false flag, where the government can say 'hey look we are fixing the issue' but are actually NOT addressing the real problems like you describe, transport, education, energy, pensions, health etc... etc... The real crux of this is however, is that we already have quite a comprehensive immigration policy but it is just used and perverted to the will of those in power. I think there is a real conflict of interests, not only here, but in the 'developed' world generally. Money-driven big business banking seems to have crushed and replaced many of our human values and has all but scraped our souls out from the bottom of the deepest barrel. I only hope it's not all too late! :sad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVd-zAXACrUWe already have a system run by the rich, for pretty much their sole benefit. We could fix a whole lotta stuff by getting the money OUT of politics. Starting with campaign finance reform. Spending a billion dollars over two years, to get a job that pays 400,000 a year, for four years, is just stupid. In this day and age of instant information/communication, there is absolutely no reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I feel this way too. The main obstacle I see is that this money and power is so deeply entrenched from hundreds of years of continuous revolution to which the masses had no idea - much of the chaos of the world has been the result of manipulation, corruption and exploitation. I too, hope we can escape censorship and come together in negotiation, compromise and self-sacrifice, however I fear this will be resisted against with targeted and systematic mass-violence as a result the fight to survive by multi-national organisations, countries, their governments and large numbers of desperate, abused and angry people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WursWaldo Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Class Warfare; REALLY? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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