shotgun188 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In response to post #25771794. #25773209, #25777049, #25777159, #25780994, #25783964, #25785324, #25785509, #25785969, #25786804, #25788864, #25791754, #25792339, #25792669, #25793089, #25793754, #25794079, #25794829, #25795234, #25803919, #25817954 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote KiCHo666 wrote: Please don't be dumbed down....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down...... Quote d81 wrote: If Skyrim is any indication I expect the worst...but still (idiotically) hope for the best. Quote Camonna Tong wrote: Quite a bit of the "dumbing down" had to do with the consoles, so it won't be as bad. Morrowind, which is my favorite, had the most dumbing down of them all. I've not had problems with most of the dumbing down. Stuff like the Classes being removed I agreed with. Post-Daggerfall classes had no real point besides affecting your level rate and how high your level can be. Quote jim_uk wrote: If it follows the Elder Scrolls pattern then each game will be dumber than the last with important stuff stripped out to make way for pointless fluff, hopefully mods can correct that. Quote Gopher wrote: @jim_uk I disagree. I don't think the TES games have been dumbed down at all. I have been playing since Daggerfall, and the only thing I would say is 'dumbed down' in Skyrim is the magic/enchanting system. I understand why they had to do that (and it had nothing to do with consoles), but I didn't like it. Quote Bloodinfested wrote: You could write a small novel on the amount of dumb down in TES so I wouldn’t get your hopes up bud accept reality... Quote jim_uk wrote: @Gopher You can't be serious? the rot started with Oblivion, that's when quests become nothing but follow the arrow and do what you're told, even then when you arrived at the generic cave that the arrow led you to you got a pop up telling you that you should go in, the game had a never ending tutorial. Fallout 3 was a little better but not by much, again it was a case of follow the arrow and do what you're told. Then there's Skyrim, a game where so much has been stripped away that the player is completely detached from the world, nothing you do matters, no one in the game cares about what's happening, you're once again following the arrow and doing what you're told, the game doesn't even have a proper journal to remind you of what you're following that arrow for, it's been replaced by a list that serves as nothing more than a way of changing which way the GPS arrow points.Bethesdas games have no meaningful choices, no consequences, quests work in complete isolation from each other making the world incoherent. Their standard of writing is nothing short of atrocious, this leads to dull stories and one dimensional NPCs who all seem to be suffering from various types of mental illness. Bethesda's games give the illusion of freedom when in reality there is none, the quests are no different to single player Call of Duty, you're not free to think for yourself, to make any choices in how any of it plays out, the only choice you have is do the quest now or do it later. Look at all the choices and paths New Vegas offers and then compare it to Fallout 3.As modding platforms Bethesdas titles are second to none, as RPGs they're garbage. Quote Natterforme wrote: I think its a little early to start the PC vs consoles trash talk. That horse has been beaten to death a million times over on the internet and serves no purpose here.:ets wait and see what this announcement actually is before we make assumptions of the future of Fallout.-Natterforme Quote jet4571 wrote: There is other dumbing down, skills and perks in Skyrim are not as robust as the previous titles. Then there's the whole outfit system that went from Oblivion allowing the player to mix and match top and bottom along with shoes, gloves, and hats to FO3's lack of choices that has continued to Skyrim. Quote falloutchad wrote: I am actually so anxious right now, So so worried they will change direction of what we the people want. All i want is basically a better version of FNV combined with Fo3 and Skyrim using the updated Gamebryo engine that Skyrim was on. And if they added co-op (big IF i know) that would be even better. But I'd really like to see an advance on skills and character progression, along with more in depth game play and narrative. And yes Gopher the games have become dumbed down because of consoles and yes they have/are being held back by consoles but yes IF Fo4 is mod-able then we modder's can fix the dumbness.I just really hope Fo4 isn't taking the "For casual gamers" route sooo many games are taking. Quote marthgun wrote: Since Morrowind i have felt the open world has gotten progressively smaller and less filled.mods can fix anything but a small map. I just hope they made it massive. We can fill the rest Quote KiCHo666 wrote: Well, mods can't add completely new skills, add weapon degradation (that is not clumsy), change any of hardcoded mechanics the game uses or add VATS if it's removed (hopefuly it's still there).Hate to be pessimistic, but I expect the worst. Quote haxbox wrote: Hey. Heard about one game. They call it "LIFE". P-fff. What a nonsenseP.S Really, games are not meant to imitate real life. Just to kill our time. Quote jim_uk wrote: @jet4571 Indeed http://i.imgur.com/xLgRoAt.png Quote KiCHo666 wrote: My prediction of next TES game. Quote jim_uk wrote: And two spells, "Heal Me" and "Shiny Thing". Quote Bloodinfested wrote: That might not be too far off sadly... maybe a fire spellI guess modders can fix some of the catastrophic mess but your at a point now where your almost redesigning an entire game. Stuff like reputation would be hard to throw back in Daggerfall for example everything you did had an effect on the world to npcs to other factions and would lead to one of 6 different endings, Skyrim nothing you do matters. Quote bioshards wrote: I wouldn't hold my breath, bethesda is known for this and they will without hesitation. the announced that they removed attributes from fallout now. Quote bioshards wrote: I completely agree with gopher, skyrim is not dumbed down at all. unless you count removing attributes completely, removing stats that governed movement, NPCs you cant kill, items you can't drop, weapon types removed, quest arrows, less enemy types, less enemy characteristics (weaknesses and resistances), linear dungeons, no acknowledgement for player actions or faction rank, no classes and no barrier to entry for any specialization, nerfed racial abilities, all utility and stealth related magic removed with the exception of invisibility, endgame player power potential reduced significantly, very close-ended diplomacy system, reduced the influence of stats significantly, no weapon or armor degradation.... you get the picture Quote djhater wrote: Considering Tim Cain is NOT Lead on the games.........Fallout 3 and 4 are NOT the direction the Original creator of Fallout (Tim Cain) ( "My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun." ) "FEV was supposed to be localized to CA" AS stated by the Original Fallout creator" I think FO3 they should have taken it off in a different direction more""New Vegas is very good and comes closer to FO1 for me than any of the other games."History of Fallout from the Creator ALL OF YOU NEED TO WATCH THESE BEFORE YOU COMMENT NONSENSE ABOUT FALLOUT ALSO YOU CAN'T ARGUE THE CREATOR OF FALLOUT ORIGINAL VISION FOR THE WORLD/LORE.Doesn't matter if 1st/3rd/iso view or 1994 vs 2015 It's still Tim Cain's Vision and World that he created and Bethesda/Todd Howard ...Ruined. TES = Skyrim = "Roleplaying for Retards" "Running Similator"Some common quotes Skyrim/TES players = "I spent over 200 hrs exploring every inch of the world" (running around in circles)"I can roleplay" I always LOL@ that! You make a "character" with meaningless stats that have no impact on the world. "I so much loot to find ""Immersion" so much "immersion""I can level up all my stats"(perfect character)That "Gopher" clown rambles a lot of nonsense all the time! (I think has Aspergers)Fallout 3 = Story from 1 + 2 basically copying Quote weijiesen wrote: Quote Then there's Skyrim, a game where so much has been stripped away that the player is completely detached from the world, nothing you do matters, no one in the game cares about what's happening, you're once again following the arrow and doing what you're told, the game doesn't even have a proper journal to remind you of what you're following that arrow for, it's been replaced by a list that serves as nothing more than a way of changing which way the GPS arrow points.Everything jim_uk said."I don't think Skyrim was dumbed down" is not a valid rebuttal. At least write some evidence of proof of exactly HOW it wasn't dumbed down in a feeble attempt to outweigh all the things listed of how it was dumbed down... Quote I completely agree with gopher, skyrim is not dumbed down at all. unless you count removing attributes completely, removing stats that governed movement, NPCs you cant kill, items you can't drop, weapon types removed, quest arrows, less enemy types, less enemy characteristics (weaknesses and resistances), linear dungeons, no acknowledgement for player actions or faction rank, no classes and no barrier to entry for any specialization, nerfed racial abilities, all utility and stealth related magic removed with the exception of invisibility, endgame player power potential reduced significantly, very close-ended diplomacy system, reduced the influence of stats significantly, no weapon or armor degradation.... you get the pictureDammit Carlos.... that's the most spot-on comment I've seen from you :) Kudos to you@Marthgun: Oblivion has a bigger map than Morrowind. So does Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodinfested Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) In response to post #25818859. #25838029 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Dragonfire12 wrote: All this gripping about dumbing down the game. Here's the problem. We grippers are only about 10% of the people who buy and play video games. The other 90% don't gripe and they don't play a lot of the games. So in order to bring in more players they had to make the games, "Player Friendly". They tried to accommodate us grippers with skill level selection, etc., but of course that is blasphemous to the pure of heart, eh.Personally I hate how much so many games have been dumbed down (err, made, Player Friendly), but from a business standpoint I understand why its happening. I played WoW before the first expansion and it was awesome. Then they started dumbing it down so 12 year olds could tell me what they did to my mother in trade chat. I shut it off when Kung Fu Panda came out because I didn't want to play with 7 year olds. The problem, so many seven year olds started playing that they didn't notice I left and didn't miss me :-(I see a lot of games trying to walk this type rope between hard core and casual players. The problem is that casuals are the larger of the two groups and including them at the expense of the hard core players is still a winning solution at the bottom line, how much the game makes in sales.If you want hardcore check out Star Wars: The Old Republic, Aion or EvE. But of course you have to realize that I could probably fit the servers for all three games in my basement (Yes I know they wouldn't fit, its just a figure of speech). The problem is that Hard Core just doesn't sell much. There are not enough hard core players, this is the age of the casual and the "Player Friendly" game. So lets all just bite our tongues and deal with it and stop gripping, it's irritating. I just hope that Fallout 4 has a good storyline. Quote ChibiAlien wrote: Everything you said there is right on the money. I wish i could articulate this reality as well as you did. Theres also Mortal Online thats pretty hardcore long as you don't mind 1st person rpgs.Wizardry online when your character dies you have to create a new one doesn’t get any more hardcore then that but I kind of prefer the old classic wizardry games vs the online. Edited June 5, 2015 by Bloodinfested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalloutNVlover123 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) In response to post #25799859. #25820654, #25823809 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Urushira wrote: Well, it seems obvious its a prequel, so i dont hold any hope for Mothership zeta or any TSC mods.. I think the dog was just a mechanic to show you around Boston. Landscapes appear recycled from fallout 3. Thats not unexpected.. The game should be interesting for modders though. it "looks" big enough and busy enough to have some fun in.. Its just that after ESO, i dont trust Bethesda any more.. Quote wsxcgy wrote: ESO wasn't developed by Bethesda, only published. I'm pretty sure Bethesda is developing this, so don't worry too much. Quote questingforcake wrote: ESO was by Zenimax you f*#@in plebIt is obviously not a prequel, how can you determine it is a prequel just from the teaser trailer flashing back in time to before the war, i personally think it looks like it is going to be in the future compared to Fallout 3 because their seems to be many new and not prewar technologies expressed throughout the trailer Edited June 5, 2015 by FalloutNVlover123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenplagues Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In response to post #25818859. #25838029, #25842094 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Dragonfire12 wrote: All this gripping about dumbing down the game. Here's the problem. We grippers are only about 10% of the people who buy and play video games. The other 90% don't gripe and they don't play a lot of the games. So in order to bring in more players they had to make the games, "Player Friendly". They tried to accommodate us grippers with skill level selection, etc., but of course that is blasphemous to the pure of heart, eh.Personally I hate how much so many games have been dumbed down (err, made, Player Friendly), but from a business standpoint I understand why its happening. I played WoW before the first expansion and it was awesome. Then they started dumbing it down so 12 year olds could tell me what they did to my mother in trade chat. I shut it off when Kung Fu Panda came out because I didn't want to play with 7 year olds. The problem, so many seven year olds started playing that they didn't notice I left and didn't miss me :-(I see a lot of games trying to walk this type rope between hard core and casual players. The problem is that casuals are the larger of the two groups and including them at the expense of the hard core players is still a winning solution at the bottom line, how much the game makes in sales.If you want hardcore check out Star Wars: The Old Republic, Aion or EvE. But of course you have to realize that I could probably fit the servers for all three games in my basement (Yes I know they wouldn't fit, its just a figure of speech). The problem is that Hard Core just doesn't sell much. There are not enough hard core players, this is the age of the casual and the "Player Friendly" game. So lets all just bite our tongues and deal with it and stop gripping, it's irritating. I just hope that Fallout 4 has a good storyline. Quote ChibiAlien wrote: Everything you said there is right on the money. I wish i could articulate this reality as well as you did. Quote Bloodinfested wrote: Theres also Mortal Online thats pretty hardcore long as you don't mind 1st person rpgs.Wizardry online when your character dies you have to create a new one doesn’t get any more hardcore then that but I kind of prefer the old classic wizardry games vs the online. really? sw:tor? this dumped the whole statement for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnotweak Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In response to post #25771794. #25773209, #25777049, #25777159, #25780994, #25783964, #25785324, #25785509, #25785969, #25786804, #25788864, #25791754, #25792339, #25792669, #25793089, #25793754, #25794079, #25794829, #25795234, #25803919, #25817954, #25842039 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote KiCHo666 wrote: Please don't be dumbed down....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down...... Quote d81 wrote: If Skyrim is any indication I expect the worst...but still (idiotically) hope for the best. Quote Camonna Tong wrote: Quite a bit of the "dumbing down" had to do with the consoles, so it won't be as bad. Morrowind, which is my favorite, had the most dumbing down of them all. I've not had problems with most of the dumbing down. Stuff like the Classes being removed I agreed with. Post-Daggerfall classes had no real point besides affecting your level rate and how high your level can be. Quote jim_uk wrote: If it follows the Elder Scrolls pattern then each game will be dumber than the last with important stuff stripped out to make way for pointless fluff, hopefully mods can correct that. Quote Gopher wrote: @jim_uk I disagree. I don't think the TES games have been dumbed down at all. I have been playing since Daggerfall, and the only thing I would say is 'dumbed down' in Skyrim is the magic/enchanting system. I understand why they had to do that (and it had nothing to do with consoles), but I didn't like it. Quote Bloodinfested wrote: You could write a small novel on the amount of dumb down in TES so I wouldn’t get your hopes up bud accept reality... Quote jim_uk wrote: @Gopher You can't be serious? the rot started with Oblivion, that's when quests become nothing but follow the arrow and do what you're told, even then when you arrived at the generic cave that the arrow led you to you got a pop up telling you that you should go in, the game had a never ending tutorial. Fallout 3 was a little better but not by much, again it was a case of follow the arrow and do what you're told. Then there's Skyrim, a game where so much has been stripped away that the player is completely detached from the world, nothing you do matters, no one in the game cares about what's happening, you're once again following the arrow and doing what you're told, the game doesn't even have a proper journal to remind you of what you're following that arrow for, it's been replaced by a list that serves as nothing more than a way of changing which way the GPS arrow points.Bethesdas games have no meaningful choices, no consequences, quests work in complete isolation from each other making the world incoherent. Their standard of writing is nothing short of atrocious, this leads to dull stories and one dimensional NPCs who all seem to be suffering from various types of mental illness. Bethesda's games give the illusion of freedom when in reality there is none, the quests are no different to single player Call of Duty, you're not free to think for yourself, to make any choices in how any of it plays out, the only choice you have is do the quest now or do it later. Look at all the choices and paths New Vegas offers and then compare it to Fallout 3.As modding platforms Bethesdas titles are second to none, as RPGs they're garbage. Quote Natterforme wrote: I think its a little early to start the PC vs consoles trash talk. That horse has been beaten to death a million times over on the internet and serves no purpose here.:ets wait and see what this announcement actually is before we make assumptions of the future of Fallout.-Natterforme Quote jet4571 wrote: There is other dumbing down, skills and perks in Skyrim are not as robust as the previous titles. Then there's the whole outfit system that went from Oblivion allowing the player to mix and match top and bottom along with shoes, gloves, and hats to FO3's lack of choices that has continued to Skyrim. Quote falloutchad wrote: I am actually so anxious right now, So so worried they will change direction of what we the people want. All i want is basically a better version of FNV combined with Fo3 and Skyrim using the updated Gamebryo engine that Skyrim was on. And if they added co-op (big IF i know) that would be even better. But I'd really like to see an advance on skills and character progression, along with more in depth game play and narrative. And yes Gopher the games have become dumbed down because of consoles and yes they have/are being held back by consoles but yes IF Fo4 is mod-able then we modder's can fix the dumbness.I just really hope Fo4 isn't taking the "For casual gamers" route sooo many games are taking. Quote marthgun wrote: Since Morrowind i have felt the open world has gotten progressively smaller and less filled.mods can fix anything but a small map. I just hope they made it massive. We can fill the rest Quote KiCHo666 wrote: Well, mods can't add completely new skills, add weapon degradation (that is not clumsy), change any of hardcoded mechanics the game uses or add VATS if it's removed (hopefuly it's still there).Hate to be pessimistic, but I expect the worst. Quote haxbox wrote: Hey. Heard about one game. They call it "LIFE". P-fff. What a nonsenseP.S Really, games are not meant to imitate real life. Just to kill our time. Quote jim_uk wrote: @jet4571 Indeed http://i.imgur.com/xLgRoAt.png Quote KiCHo666 wrote: My prediction of next TES game. Quote jim_uk wrote: And two spells, "Heal Me" and "Shiny Thing". Quote Bloodinfested wrote: That might not be too far off sadly... maybe a fire spellI guess modders can fix some of the catastrophic mess but your at a point now where your almost redesigning an entire game. Stuff like reputation would be hard to throw back in Daggerfall for example everything you did had an effect on the world to npcs to other factions and would lead to one of 6 different endings, Skyrim nothing you do matters. Quote bioshards wrote: I wouldn't hold my breath, bethesda is known for this and they will without hesitation. the announced that they removed attributes from fallout now. Quote bioshards wrote: I completely agree with gopher, skyrim is not dumbed down at all. unless you count removing attributes completely, removing stats that governed movement, NPCs you cant kill, items you can't drop, weapon types removed, quest arrows, less enemy types, less enemy characteristics (weaknesses and resistances), linear dungeons, no acknowledgement for player actions or faction rank, no classes and no barrier to entry for any specialization, nerfed racial abilities, all utility and stealth related magic removed with the exception of invisibility, endgame player power potential reduced significantly, very close-ended diplomacy system, reduced the influence of stats significantly, no weapon or armor degradation.... you get the picture Quote djhater wrote: Considering Tim Cain is NOT Lead on the games.........Fallout 3 and 4 are NOT the direction the Original creator of Fallout (Tim Cain) ( "My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun." ) "FEV was supposed to be localized to CA" AS stated by the Original Fallout creator" I think FO3 they should have taken it off in a different direction more""New Vegas is very good and comes closer to FO1 for me than any of the other games."History of Fallout from the Creator ALL OF YOU NEED TO WATCH THESE BEFORE YOU COMMENT NONSENSE ABOUT FALLOUT ALSO YOU CAN'T ARGUE THE CREATOR OF FALLOUT ORIGINAL VISION FOR THE WORLD/LORE.Doesn't matter if 1st/3rd/iso view or 1994 vs 2015 It's still Tim Cain's Vision and World that he created and Bethesda/Todd Howard ...Ruined. TES = Skyrim = "Roleplaying for Retards" "Running Similator"Some common quotes Skyrim/TES players = "I spent over 200 hrs exploring every inch of the world" (running around in circles)"I can roleplay" I always LOL@ that! You make a "character" with meaningless stats that have no impact on the world. "I so much loot to find ""Immersion" so much "immersion""I can level up all my stats"(perfect character)That "Gopher" clown rambles a lot of nonsense all the time! (I think has Aspergers)Fallout 3 = Story from 1 + 2 basically copying Quote weijiesen wrote: Quote Then there's Skyrim, a game where so much has been stripped away that the player is completely detached from the world, nothing you do matters, no one in the game cares about what's happening, you're once again following the arrow and doing what you're told, the game doesn't even have a proper journal to remind you of what you're following that arrow for, it's been replaced by a list that serves as nothing more than a way of changing which way the GPS arrow points.Everything jim_uk said."I don't think Skyrim was dumbed down" is not a valid rebuttal. At least write some evidence of proof of exactly HOW it wasn't dumbed down in a feeble attempt to outweigh all the things listed of how it was dumbed down... Quote I completely agree with gopher, skyrim is not dumbed down at all. unless you count removing attributes completely, removing stats that governed movement, NPCs you cant kill, items you can't drop, weapon types removed, quest arrows, less enemy types, less enemy characteristics (weaknesses and resistances), linear dungeons, no acknowledgement for player actions or faction rank, no classes and no barrier to entry for any specialization, nerfed racial abilities, all utility and stealth related magic removed with the exception of invisibility, endgame player power potential reduced significantly, very close-ended diplomacy system, reduced the influence of stats significantly, no weapon or armor degradation.... you get the pictureDammit Carlos.... that's the most spot-on comment I've seen from you :) Kudos to you Quote shotgun188 wrote: @Marthgun: Oblivion has a bigger map than Morrowind. So does Skyrim.they only have a larger map because they did away with levitation in oblivion. and in skyrim they removed any ability to do anything underwater too... next we wont be able to jump and after that it will become a phone app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard8 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 At GTA forums, they are discussion that the new mysteries stranger could be a Android and they adjusted the image showing a cybernetic hand, see this page of GTA thread about it http://gtaforums.com/topic/521259-fallout-4/page-34 owe I also posted a bunch of screen captures images from the trailer in that thread this guyhttp://i.imgur.com/PGa3YRb.png image they posted at GTA forums with comparisonshttp://i.imgur.com/Nwj9A6X.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyther8897 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It'll be a good game :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyther8897 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In response to post #25824399. #25825194 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Letalis001 wrote: Im writing this in response to the dumbing down fears that bethesda is supposedly noted for. I started with Morrowind. loved it thought it was a great game.for its time.i never really got a chance to play daggerfall and arena properly. DOS emulation can be a chore to setup and even when that style was all the rage. i wasnt really keen on the controls and gameplay felt stiff.Oblivion i considered an improvement over morrowind in terms of gameplay. sure not being able to make a spell that wipes out the entire town and no levitate spells sucked but lets be realistic here. no npc had a single cast nuclear spell that would just annihilate things. they also couldnt use levitate spells. and in oblivion, they actually fixed magic so that playing a mage was an actual viable option vs morrowind where you spent more time sleeping or drinking potions than actually using magic.oblivion had some things however that were broken too. chameleon anyone? enchant all your armor with 20% chameleon then walk through town and punch random people in the back of the head. and watch the illusion of people with some semblance of sanity unravel as you officially unleash war in the imperial city, or well anywhere in cyrodiil actually. since they couldnt see you, theyd just murder each other. sure its funny to watch, but hardly would i call that immersive.oh you dont have to 'find' the quests because the arrow tells you where to go. uh. first off. morrowinds 'directions' were bad in best case scenarios and abyssmal in worst case scenarios. most adventurers would carry a compass. better still. most adventurers would even be good at using said compass and a map. all bethesda did really was give you a convenient way to find a needle in a 14 square mile sized haystack. so you can equate quest selection to simplifying the process of marking a location, and based on distance, landmarks (on the map) and current location, the marker shows the relative position of the target.With that said, Skyrim is not without its flaws. but lets be real here. Skyrims combat is far more fun than in any other tes title. the spells, while not as diverse because of a lack of spell crafting overall were pretty well done and varied enough to make playing a mage more effective. and where did most of these game mechanics derive from?Mods. Now for fallout. Ive played fallout since the first game. loved it then. still love the game. and when fallout 3 came out it was a good game. But i feel new vegas outshined it in every way. because the game mechanics were closer to the original games than 3's.With bethesda back at the helm, i hope that they take some pages from obsidians playbook for 4. because the additions that obsidian made truly made for a more authentic fallout experience. and more than likely. they will. skyrim is proof that bethesda isnt stupid when it comes to seeing what players want and how to do it. skyrim i dont think was dumbed down, simply streamlined. and most of skyrims best gameplay mechanics were derived directly from oblivion mods.good examples of dumbing down? mass effect series. you have a game that had traditional rpg elements, that by the third game was just a third person action title. Bethesda has never done that. usually if they see something that doesnt work well. they simply consolidate it and streamline it. Quote BluePixel wrote: This a fresh perspective in this comment section. All TES games have flaws and strong points.For example, content was massive in Daggerfall and was reduced significantly in Morrowind. This in itself doesn't mean the game was bad.Also, there''s an already patched installer for Daggerfall that works really wellhttp://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:FilesAs for Fallout 4, it seems the character customization will be very limited. A very bad direction.Isn't it always? :') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyther8897 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In response to post #25818859. #25838029, #25842094, #25848259 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Dragonfire12 wrote: All this gripping about dumbing down the game. Here's the problem. We grippers are only about 10% of the people who buy and play video games. The other 90% don't gripe and they don't play a lot of the games. So in order to bring in more players they had to make the games, "Player Friendly". They tried to accommodate us grippers with skill level selection, etc., but of course that is blasphemous to the pure of heart, eh.Personally I hate how much so many games have been dumbed down (err, made, Player Friendly), but from a business standpoint I understand why its happening. I played WoW before the first expansion and it was awesome. Then they started dumbing it down so 12 year olds could tell me what they did to my mother in trade chat. I shut it off when Kung Fu Panda came out because I didn't want to play with 7 year olds. The problem, so many seven year olds started playing that they didn't notice I left and didn't miss me :-(I see a lot of games trying to walk this type rope between hard core and casual players. The problem is that casuals are the larger of the two groups and including them at the expense of the hard core players is still a winning solution at the bottom line, how much the game makes in sales.If you want hardcore check out Star Wars: The Old Republic, Aion or EvE. But of course you have to realize that I could probably fit the servers for all three games in my basement (Yes I know they wouldn't fit, its just a figure of speech). The problem is that Hard Core just doesn't sell much. There are not enough hard core players, this is the age of the casual and the "Player Friendly" game. So lets all just bite our tongues and deal with it and stop gripping, it's irritating. I just hope that Fallout 4 has a good storyline. Quote ChibiAlien wrote: Everything you said there is right on the money. I wish i could articulate this reality as well as you did. Quote Bloodinfested wrote: Theres also Mortal Online thats pretty hardcore long as you don't mind 1st person rpgs.Wizardry online when your character dies you have to create a new one doesn’t get any more hardcore then that but I kind of prefer the old classic wizardry games vs the online. Quote Sevenplagues wrote: really? sw:tor? this dumped the whole statement for me....Ditto, Plagues. TOR was absolutely shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bioshards Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) In response to post #25771794. #25773209, #25777049, #25777159, #25780994, #25783964, #25785324, #25785509, #25785969, #25786804, #25788864, #25791754, #25792339, #25792669, #25793089, #25793754, #25794079, #25794829, #25795234, #25803919, #25817954, #25842039, #25850909, #25857944 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote KiCHo666 wrote: Please don't be dumbed down....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down.....Please don't be dumbed down...... Quote d81 wrote: If Skyrim is any indication I expect the worst...but still (idiotically) hope for the best. Quote Camonna Tong wrote: Quite a bit of the "dumbing down" had to do with the consoles, so it won't be as bad. Morrowind, which is my favorite, had the most dumbing down of them all. I've not had problems with most of the dumbing down. Stuff like the Classes being removed I agreed with. Post-Daggerfall classes had no real point besides affecting your level rate and how high your level can be. Quote jim_uk wrote: If it follows the Elder Scrolls pattern then each game will be dumber than the last with important stuff stripped out to make way for pointless fluff, hopefully mods can correct that. Quote Gopher wrote: @jim_uk I disagree. I don't think the TES games have been dumbed down at all. I have been playing since Daggerfall, and the only thing I would say is 'dumbed down' in Skyrim is the magic/enchanting system. I understand why they had to do that (and it had nothing to do with consoles), but I didn't like it. Quote Bloodinfested wrote: You could write a small novel on the amount of dumb down in TES so I wouldn’t get your hopes up bud accept reality... Quote jim_uk wrote: @Gopher You can't be serious? the rot started with Oblivion, that's when quests become nothing but follow the arrow and do what you're told, even then when you arrived at the generic cave that the arrow led you to you got a pop up telling you that you should go in, the game had a never ending tutorial. Fallout 3 was a little better but not by much, again it was a case of follow the arrow and do what you're told. Then there's Skyrim, a game where so much has been stripped away that the player is completely detached from the world, nothing you do matters, no one in the game cares about what's happening, you're once again following the arrow and doing what you're told, the game doesn't even have a proper journal to remind you of what you're following that arrow for, it's been replaced by a list that serves as nothing more than a way of changing which way the GPS arrow points.Bethesdas games have no meaningful choices, no consequences, quests work in complete isolation from each other making the world incoherent. Their standard of writing is nothing short of atrocious, this leads to dull stories and one dimensional NPCs who all seem to be suffering from various types of mental illness. Bethesda's games give the illusion of freedom when in reality there is none, the quests are no different to single player Call of Duty, you're not free to think for yourself, to make any choices in how any of it plays out, the only choice you have is do the quest now or do it later. Look at all the choices and paths New Vegas offers and then compare it to Fallout 3.As modding platforms Bethesdas titles are second to none, as RPGs they're garbage. Quote Natterforme wrote: I think its a little early to start the PC vs consoles trash talk. That horse has been beaten to death a million times over on the internet and serves no purpose here.:ets wait and see what this announcement actually is before we make assumptions of the future of Fallout.-Natterforme Quote jet4571 wrote: There is other dumbing down, skills and perks in Skyrim are not as robust as the previous titles. Then there's the whole outfit system that went from Oblivion allowing the player to mix and match top and bottom along with shoes, gloves, and hats to FO3's lack of choices that has continued to Skyrim. Quote falloutchad wrote: I am actually so anxious right now, So so worried they will change direction of what we the people want. All i want is basically a better version of FNV combined with Fo3 and Skyrim using the updated Gamebryo engine that Skyrim was on. And if they added co-op (big IF i know) that would be even better. But I'd really like to see an advance on skills and character progression, along with more in depth game play and narrative. And yes Gopher the games have become dumbed down because of consoles and yes they have/are being held back by consoles but yes IF Fo4 is mod-able then we modder's can fix the dumbness.I just really hope Fo4 isn't taking the "For casual gamers" route sooo many games are taking. Quote marthgun wrote: Since Morrowind i have felt the open world has gotten progressively smaller and less filled.mods can fix anything but a small map. I just hope they made it massive. We can fill the rest Quote KiCHo666 wrote: Well, mods can't add completely new skills, add weapon degradation (that is not clumsy), change any of hardcoded mechanics the game uses or add VATS if it's removed (hopefuly it's still there).Hate to be pessimistic, but I expect the worst. Quote haxbox wrote: Hey. Heard about one game. They call it "LIFE". P-fff. What a nonsenseP.S Really, games are not meant to imitate real life. Just to kill our time. Quote jim_uk wrote: @jet4571 Indeed http://i.imgur.com/xLgRoAt.png Quote KiCHo666 wrote: My prediction of next TES game. Quote jim_uk wrote: And two spells, "Heal Me" and "Shiny Thing". Quote Bloodinfested wrote: That might not be too far off sadly... maybe a fire spellI guess modders can fix some of the catastrophic mess but your at a point now where your almost redesigning an entire game. Stuff like reputation would be hard to throw back in Daggerfall for example everything you did had an effect on the world to npcs to other factions and would lead to one of 6 different endings, Skyrim nothing you do matters. Quote bioshards wrote: I wouldn't hold my breath, bethesda is known for this and they will without hesitation. the announced that they removed attributes from fallout now. Quote bioshards wrote: I completely agree with gopher, skyrim is not dumbed down at all. unless you count removing attributes completely, removing stats that governed movement, NPCs you cant kill, items you can't drop, weapon types removed, quest arrows, less enemy types, less enemy characteristics (weaknesses and resistances), linear dungeons, no acknowledgement for player actions or faction rank, no classes and no barrier to entry for any specialization, nerfed racial abilities, all utility and stealth related magic removed with the exception of invisibility, endgame player power potential reduced significantly, very close-ended diplomacy system, reduced the influence of stats significantly, no weapon or armor degradation.... you get the picture Quote djhater wrote: Considering Tim Cain is NOT Lead on the games.........Fallout 3 and 4 are NOT the direction the Original creator of Fallout (Tim Cain) ( "My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun." ) "FEV was supposed to be localized to CA" AS stated by the Original Fallout creator" I think FO3 they should have taken it off in a different direction more""New Vegas is very good and comes closer to FO1 for me than any of the other games."History of Fallout from the Creator ALL OF YOU NEED TO WATCH THESE BEFORE YOU COMMENT NONSENSE ABOUT FALLOUT ALSO YOU CAN'T ARGUE THE CREATOR OF FALLOUT ORIGINAL VISION FOR THE WORLD/LORE.Doesn't matter if 1st/3rd/iso view or 1994 vs 2015 It's still Tim Cain's Vision and World that he created and Bethesda/Todd Howard ...Ruined. TES = Skyrim = "Roleplaying for Retards" "Running Similator"Some common quotes Skyrim/TES players = "I spent over 200 hrs exploring every inch of the world" (running around in circles)"I can roleplay" I always LOL@ that! You make a "character" with meaningless stats that have no impact on the world. "I so much loot to find ""Immersion" so much "immersion""I can level up all my stats"(perfect character)That "Gopher" clown rambles a lot of nonsense all the time! (I think has Aspergers)Fallout 3 = Story from 1 + 2 basically copying Quote weijiesen wrote: Quote Then there's Skyrim, a game where so much has been stripped away that the player is completely detached from the world, nothing you do matters, no one in the game cares about what's happening, you're once again following the arrow and doing what you're told, the game doesn't even have a proper journal to remind you of what you're following that arrow for, it's been replaced by a list that serves as nothing more than a way of changing which way the GPS arrow points.Everything jim_uk said."I don't think Skyrim was dumbed down" is not a valid rebuttal. At least write some evidence of proof of exactly HOW it wasn't dumbed down in a feeble attempt to outweigh all the things listed of how it was dumbed down... Quote I completely agree with gopher, skyrim is not dumbed down at all. unless you count removing attributes completely, removing stats that governed movement, NPCs you cant kill, items you can't drop, weapon types removed, quest arrows, less enemy types, less enemy characteristics (weaknesses and resistances), linear dungeons, no acknowledgement for player actions or faction rank, no classes and no barrier to entry for any specialization, nerfed racial abilities, all utility and stealth related magic removed with the exception of invisibility, endgame player power potential reduced significantly, very close-ended diplomacy system, reduced the influence of stats significantly, no weapon or armor degradation.... you get the pictureDammit Carlos.... that's the most spot-on comment I've seen from you :) Kudos to you Quote shotgun188 wrote: @Marthgun: Oblivion has a bigger map than Morrowind. So does Skyrim. Quote oldnotweak wrote: they only have a larger map because they did away with levitation in oblivion. and in skyrim they removed any ability to do anything underwater too... next we wont be able to jump and after that it will become a phone app Quote bioshards wrote: map size doth not an RPG makedouble post, sorry Edited June 5, 2015 by bioshards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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