Transgenderism

[Vagrant0]

Male, female, transgender, straight, bi, gay, black, white, olive, tan, yellow...I really couldn't care less. I'm just not one for all the drama surrounding it all.

This /\

 

A good portion of the prejudice which exists is only there because people become so attached to their social labels and often remove themselves from the greater society because of those labels they place upon themselves. Not to make light of the issue, but what this and many other things often boil down to is playground mentality:

 

If a child or group of children are off on the side away from everyone else, they won't be included in the games which are being played, and may even be harassed for not belonging. The sentiment is not one of uniformity, but rather the suspicion that because that child or group does not want to interact with the others, it "must" mean that something is wrong with that child or group, or worse, that child or group really means to do "us" harm.

 

This framework applies to most of the prejudice which is not caused by sheer ignorance or misinformation.

 

But It would be insulting to think that this is the only factor at work in this case since the transition between sexes is in itself a very long, painful, and often alienating process. But, if you compare Western and Eastern society models, there is a rather stark contrast between the two, both in how the person is adjusted to their new role and in how society accepts that transition. In the west, even in sex clinics, it is still treated as there being something wrong with the person that medicine and intensive psychotherapy must fix. In the east, it is seen as merely turning a new leaf, what was once one thing is now something different. The problem I think is that most people, especially experts, aren't particularly inclined, or capable in really understanding this aspect of human behavior, and prefer to hold to their own biases and ignorance. In one transcript I read of a group therapy session for transitioning M2F, one of the newer members was encouraged by the "therapist" to break off all connections with their family and friends so that they would have an easier time adjusting to their changes. While I can understand the underlying sentiments toward wanting to avoid identity confusion, I can't disagree more with the idea of encouraging someone to discard any social and moral support (outside the group of course) they might have to get them through what is often a very difficult time. While, to be fair, not all sessions are like this and practices have improved slightly in the last 20 years, this same sort of practice continues and only serves to create a divide between people and encourage a closed group mentality. And this is the real tragedy, those who are charged with trying to help people only think they understand it all and are more apt to play politics and power games than do things right.

 

 

 

Additionally, you should not base social sentiments around a comedy show which exists largely to make fun of anything they can and do it in the most raunchy way they're allowed. You might as well be using Family Guy as an example of a typical American family.

[grannywils]

Male, female, transgender, straight, bi, gay, black, white, olive, tan, yellow...I really couldn't care less. I'm just not one for all the drama surrounding it all.

 

 

 

Although I totally agree with you in principle, Dark One, I must with all due respect ask if you truly believe that it is possible to expect there to be none of the drama that surrounds it all. Unless and until society as a whole learns to stop labeling everyone and everything with a view toward separating one another from each other, we will never rid ourselves of this ridiculous drama. Yet again Vagrant0 is right on point regarding prejudice. There is never any validity to it. But we as a human race keep managing to find something else to fear in each other or worse yet, something else to hate. I cannot tell you why, when it is so much easier to find something in common or even something to love. But maybe that's just me....

[Sarogath]

Male, female, transgender, straight, bi, gay, black, white, olive, tan, yellow...I really couldn't care less. I'm just not one for all the drama surrounding it all.

This /\

 

A good portion of the prejudice which exists is only there because people become so attached to their social labels and often remove themselves from the greater society because of those labels they place upon themselves. Not to make light of the issue, but what this and many other things often boil down to is playground mentality:

 

If a child or group of children are off on the side away from everyone else, they won't be included in the games which are being played, and may even be harassed for not belonging. The sentiment is not one of uniformity, but rather the suspicion that because that child or group does not want to interact with the others, it "must" mean that something is wrong with that child or group, or worse, that child or group really means to do "us" harm.

 

This framework applies to most of the prejudice which is not caused by sheer ignorance or misinformation.

 

 

 

i totally agree with you there considering the "playground mentality" vagrant.

in my opinion global society as a whole displays a lack of maturity not only in terms of forming "one" global community or accepting each other as the beings we are but also in terms of the reality perception.

that being said who actually is the society? aren't we all society in one way or the other? we all have the responsibility to improve the current society we are living in right now. i don't dare say "by all means necessary" but in some cases i find it appropriate to give a person a gentle but firm slap in the face to make them realize: "this far, not further". of course violence is never an answer and will subsequently lead to more violence. this, in my humble opinion, is where mankind fails, we fail to establish a constructive dialogue that doesn't disadvantage one or the other party. (hmm society rant...)

 

as for transgenderism, i spend a lot of time in a politicly left-wing project. those tend to put a focus on topics like transgenderism, homophobia, racism or sexism. and once anyone really starts getting into a topic they'll probably come to see how much "deep-programming" has been done by the so-called society. you see i disagree about the methods of social control that are applied to people whether they are religious, sexual, psychologic or i don't know what some wacko in a wood might think of to make people do as he pleases...(more rant...)

 

The goals can only be: Don't do as you are told! Always question anything! And be self-reliant about your dealings! nobody needs anybody to tell her/him what and what not to do.

 

i appreciate Megatarius' gesture, i wished more people in prominent positions'd tell about their sexual preferences or their divine opinion and not be afraid of what people might think. it will not change who they are or what decision they made.

[evilneko]

One of my Junior High English teachers had a saying: "we're all grey, the color of brain matter." I rather like that view.

 

Prejudice is a natural instinct in the human animal (and other animals as well). Those who are "not like me/us" are potential threats, therefore it is helpful to have a mechanism to be automatically suspicious of them. Unlike other animals though, we humans have the ability to rise above that instinct.

 

I think one of the reasons transgenders get so much flak is because while skin color crosses only one boundary, transgenderism crosses multiple lines, perhaps chief among them being sexuality. It's been hard enough just to reduce racism to the point it is today, and that doesn't even cause some people to question or feel weird about their own sexuality. Something like that is much harder for most people to get over. How rare it is (at least in some areas, I guess) is also a factor. I can't step outside without seeing someone of another race, but I'm not sure if I've ever actually met a transgendered person of any sort (in person).

 

Unfortunately I think prejudiced attitudes will always be with us. We just have to rise above it and remind ourselves that those that think that way are simply ignorant. Even Star Trek had prejudiced gits. :confused:

 

Oh, about the South Park ep. I haven't seen it, but...

 

The infamous South Park about Mr. Garrison getting a sex change is insulting (and I love that show). It's insulting because it gets everything wrong. The main point in the episode is that we shouldn't try to be something we aren't. Any transgendered person would tell you that what's on the outside is not at all what we really are. Now I wholeheartedly agree that Mr. Garrison is not a woman. Mr. Garrison is an impulsive twit. That character is funny for his own sake, but not everything he does is a good allegory.

 

Maybe that was kinda the point? Mr. Garrison isn't a woman--mentally or physically--and thus shouldn't try to be one.

[Vindekarr]

Bah, if it makes them feel comfortable, let them!

 

I dont feel any particular stigma towards transexuals.

 

As long as they arent a jerk themselves, Im happy to share a community with people like them.

 

I must confess a bias on this topic however-I've always had a high opinion of tasteful body modification, done well, face paint, spectacular hair, piercings, and even procedures as extreme as large surface area tatooing can look nothing short of mind blowing. From a mechanical/medical standpoint I dont see how this differes from other forms of extreme body modification.

 

Worst comes to worst, the procedure goes wrong and the individual is left looking like either a woman with a man's body or a man with a woman's body, which would produce some interesting social challenges, but even then would only risk looking a bit... creepy.

 

I'd never have this done to myself, but that doesnt mean I cant treat those who ahve like human beings. I agree with Dark0ne, it doesnt really matter what you are on the outside, it's the inside that's important.

[Lisnpuppy]

I honestly am with Dark0ne on this. I don't much care if you are a one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people eater...Batsheba the Cat Goddess or Betty White. What is INSIDE has always been more important to me. I confess some curiosity on how people view themselves and take the opportunity to ask the transgendered friends I have any question they feel comfortable answering...

 

However I noticed that PEOPLE that are comfortable with themselves no matter how they are clothed or dressed or styled...usually don't bring it up as a topic of conversation. If it is the main topic...I find those folks aren't really all that happy with themselves.

[BlackBaron2]

That's the point of all the campaigns for acceptance--the inside matters. The outside, not so much. However, it can only be described as, from the accounts I've heard, excruciating, to have the inside and the outside not match. Treating them as though they have something wrong with them and need us to feel sorry for them is insulting, and happens all too often. :(

 

Conclusion:

People in general lack understanding, and always have. It sucks.

[Vagrant0]

i appreciate Megatarius' gesture, i wished more people in prominent positions'd tell about their sexual preferences or their divine opinion and not be afraid of what people might think. it will not change who they are or what decision they made.

The problem is that:

 

A). it really isn't our business what that person does in the bedroom

B). Preferences don't determine the person, the actions of that person do.

C). Preference is really just a bad word for it since it denotes a choice or something which isn't intrinsic to the person. Affinity is better since it combines both choices and interests with those innate aspects that play a role in sexuality.

D). It only has an impact or importance when someone mentions something which is not normative. Someone proclaiming that they like cookies has less impact than someone who proclaims that they have adopted a diet of dog-turds.

 

As for how all this affects public opinion or the perception of how it might affect their decisions, that's a whole other ball of wax which is rooted in the norms of whatever dominant group is present in that section of society.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Agreed Vagrant.

 

I always hate when people make a big deal about a celebrity coming out of the closet. Why does it matter and why should they have told anyone in the first place? People act disappointed or shocked... it's not as if Ricky Martin was ever going to have sex with them anyways. Would it really matter if Obama came out and said he was gay? Of course everyone would attribute any failures he had to his sexual orientation and it would betray a lot of people's religion stigma.

 

Who cares what a popstar/public figure's sexual/gender preference is. Unless your sleeping in the same bed as them it's none of your business.

 

I watched an interesting film on this topic called Victor Victoria... which is inevitably disappointing because it is too Hollywoodized and in the end everyone ends up happy. It would be great if there were a film where someone was transgendered/transsexual and you never find out what they really "are". In the end it shouldn't matter if Victor is a man or a woman, Victor is just Victor and nothing else.

[Sarogath]

i appreciate Megatarius' gesture, i wished more people in prominent positions'd tell about their sexual preferences or their divine opinion and not be afraid of what people might think. it will not change who they are or what decision they made.

The problem is that:

 

A). it really isn't our business what that person does in the bedroom

B). Preferences don't determine the person, the actions of that person do.

C). Preference is really just a bad word for it since it denotes a choice or something which isn't intrinsic to the person. Affinity is better since it combines both choices and interests with those innate aspects that play a role in sexuality.

D). It only has an impact or importance when someone mentions something which is not normative. Someone proclaiming that they like cookies has less impact than someone who proclaims that they have adopted a diet of dog-turds.

 

As for how all this affects public opinion or the perception of how it might affect their decisions, that's a whole other ball of wax which is rooted in the norms of whatever dominant group is present in that section of society.

 

sorry for my inappropriate use of language. english is not my mother-tongue.

 

i did not want to emphasize on the importance of a "celebrity person" coming out (i wouldn't care myself very much)

and i think we do agree in at least the general idea, since:

 

A.) You are right but on the other hand everyday bedroom-level stories are intertwined with real news in the media, so even though it might not be our business there is certainly some kind curiosity that needs to be adressed in one way or the other.

B.+C.) Of course you are right there. Again I'm very sorry for bad use of language.

D.) I'd like to think of normativity as one of the major errors in human social society. Because there is no "normal person" speaking in social terms. And even if there were I would be the last person to embrace the concept. as for the irrelevance of a person that only voices thoughts along normative borders, i do think we still have to acknowledge them and put that notion of normativity under very thorough scrutiny.

 

i hope i could explain myself a bit better this time

Edited February 17, 2011 by Sarogath