Same Sex Education in Schools

[Vagrant0]

 

In one instance you want to dismiss studies as being flawed, in another you use studies to validate your argument. That's annoying and I'm disinclined to take your views into consideration.

 

You don't need to respond back. But to clarify, there is a difference between studies that acknowledge a co-relation and studies which acknowledge a causation.

 

In studies where there is evidence of a co-relation, they are simply saying that in situations where A is present, B can also be present. In these sorts of studies, neither variable A nor variable are being controlled or manipulated, so no real conclusions can be drawn beyond a statistical likelihood. These sorts of studies are usually only done to try and gauge a baseline frequency at it exists within a population to determine if more isolated testing has merit.

 

In studies where there is evidence of a causation, they are saying that changes to variable A has a direct effect on the frequency of B. In these sorts of studies, they are making A a variable which is being controlled in an attempt to intentionally influence B. As a result of changing one variable and seeing a related change in the other, conclusions can be drawn that a change to A will also change B.

 

The studies you mentioned only looked for co-relation, therefore cannot serve as any basis of proof beyond saying that two things are or are not statistically mutually exclusive.

[MotoSxorpio]

There are studies already? I'm thinking that there are yet to be some, I can't find much except single sex education discussion, obviously pointing out that there is no same sex study...

 

Aren't we here to discuss this as it may become a relevant discussion at the dinner table for those with school children? Or grandchildren. What does the unknowing heterosexual parent say when his child explains that there may be an issue with their identity? Who educates the parent on this? Isn't that where almost all society graces and disgraces originate?

[Lisnpuppy]

 

In one instance you want to dismiss studies as being flawed, in another you use studies to validate your argument. That's annoying and I'm disinclined to take your views into consideration.

It is true I've faced adversity but those challenges do not define me as a person and I do not use them as an excuse not to be a productive and responsible American. I came to American when I was nine years old. I was a poor immigrant and I didn't speak or write English, and I have African heritage. According to some of the posts in this thread there was no reason for my father to work two jobs, for my mother to work as a hotel maid, or for me to better myself. By the socially loose standards of some here, I could have become a street thug and a drug addict and they would have been sympathetic to those choices because I faced social challenges. Poor, black and uneducated; I was held down by society at large, or I should have felt that way.

Little by little the true colors of a few here begin to show. People who face social challenges (either by choice or providence) do not need to take personal responsibility. Society must accept them and make allowances. The result is social justice apostate. Think the way we want you to think or you will be shunned and labeled a bigot or intolerant. The same bigotry and hypocrisy they hate is used to get what they want.

I am truly done discussing this or any topic with you at this point. You are inconsistent from post to post and it appears you simply have the desire to right, or you have difficulty focusing. Your apology was less than sincere and was more like another insult. So please proceed.

Edited for spelling:

 

You are supposed to be debating the facts of the argument. I don't know how you could call an apology sincere or not based on typed text. If your argument is that people can rise above the circumstance of their birth or the impact abuse or discrimination plays in their lives, then do so. Show evidence of people that have done this. Show your argument. Show exactly where others arguments have failed.

 

You seem to be taking this very personally and though I can accept that you have passionate views on topic you are not presenting a good argument. You seem to be disintegrating into the very things you have accused others of in this thread. You have insulted Vagrant and did not at any time show examples of what you state in the last thread.

 

We do not even know you to have an opinion other than the debate set in the thread. Don't let your view on the topic make you think anyone who has a different view is making a personal attack. I also find this helpful in this debates section:

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[WursWaldo]

I presented irrefutable facts in one instance, along with the link where I took the information from. I am the only person to do so thus far, by the way. The facts colored my opinion, though it seems by your post I’m the only person required present facts. For others, their opinions are enough simply because you agree with them. And people wonder why these debate threads are in their current state.

This is the epitome of a fruitless endeavour on my part and a waste of time.

[MajKrAzAm]

 

I presented irrefutable facts in one instance, along with the link where I took the information from. I am the only person to do so thus far, by the way. The facts colored my opinion, though it seems by your post I’m the only person required present facts. For others, their opinions are enough simply because you agree with them. And people wonder why these debate threads are in their current state.

This is the epitome of a fruitless endeavour on my part and a waste of time.

 

 

*TIPS FEDORA*

[Lisnpuppy]

 

I presented irrefutable facts in one instance, along with the link where I took the information from. I am the only person to do so thus far, by the way. The facts colored my opinion, though it seems by your post I’m the only person required present facts. For others, their opinions are enough simply because you agree with them. And people wonder why these debate threads are in their current state.

This is the epitome of a fruitless endeavour on my part and a waste of time.

 

 

Actually I do not agree with most of them so you have made an incorrect assumption. And I agree that there needs to be more evidence presented on all sides. You however, are the one that cried foul on what Vagrant said and he made an apology for it. You have absolutely no reason to believe that apology was not offered in good faith and yet you decided by text alone, without speech or body language that it was insincere.

 

You then proceeded to say Vagrant had been inconsistent in his post (and then no evidence to show when and where), you say you presented irrefutable evidence in one instance but this is a debate. Vagrant may have not won a point by giving links backing up his claims, but there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence in a debate (nor does one single piece of "evidence" qualify as a game, set and match. If there was then it wouldn't be much of a debate would it?)

 

And my issue was more that you have taken some of this very personally. My evidence is your inability to accept an apology on face value, with no evidence to the contrary that it was insincere. How can you tell this. Because he continued to stand by his opinion and not agree? How could you tell the insincerity? You say some are showing their "true colors" and that seems to have a poor connotation. What exactly do you mean and to whom do you say this?

 

You state:

In one instance you want to dismiss studies as being flawed, in another you use studies to validate your argument. That's annoying and I'm disinclined to take your views into consideration.

 

Ok then, where and when did this happen? Point it out. Instead you use someone as you think, lack of evidence and poor debate skills to just say it is useless and pointless to debate this. If someone does this then you should be able to show where and when and blow over their argument like a house of cards. Yet you do not.

 

The reason I pointed out your post (and the members here can tell you I have been in this debate section for YEARS both as a posting member and a moderator. I have chastised them all at some point and vice versa.) I see in this thread no one else that has cried foul, none that made this personal as you have and no other that has said it was pointless and planned to take thier debate and go home. You seem to have stated that you planned not to post further or that it was fruitless to do so, I think three times now.

 

It is your prerogative that you don't agree with someone. You can stay or leave the thread or simply ignore the postings of another. But to say the people are showing their "true" colors. To not accept an apology and then even say it was another insult (and I don't see it so show me where or how) that is taking it personally.

 

I have linked to that thread of fallacies many, many and many times in this debates section. It was an after thought more than anything. And you are correct I should have called Vagrant out for not showing evidence to his argument. However Vagrant will tell you that we respect one another but surely have not agreed many times in this debates topics.

 

I have great respect for those that rise above circumstance that many others allow to keep them down. I do think where you start in life can greatly impact someone but it is not always the excuse for their lacking. Many do not take opportunities available to them of education or social programs, Others simply fall through the cracks and those are the people we should continue helping. I have great admiration for you for those things you have overcome. I can certainly see why you hold the views you do and I do not honestly think that any amount of debate would sway you. However I have shown where you have taken things personally. I hope that you will simply move on and accept the things for face value and present good arguments to your case. I am truly interested in your insights as someone that has lived in this situation but find it difficult to see anything "fruitful" as yet. As in your life it is your choice how you decide to take Vagrant's post or mine. It is not personal from me. I have called out many before (as perhaps Major's hat tip indicates this and I am sure thinks with varying degrees of success) and again, you can decide as you wish. I hope that you will stay in the thread but concentrate more of showing more evidence and instances to show your side of this and focus less on what you think are personal insults.

[HeyYou]

I thought the original debate was if "Same Sex" education should be taught in schools? I think we have drifted rather far from that topic.

[Lisnpuppy]

I agree and apologize for further derailing the topic but felt it necessary to point out the fallacies in the argument above. It won't happen again.

[HeyYou]

I agree and apologize for further derailing the topic but felt it necessary to point out the fallacies in the argument above. It won't happen again.

No worries. Not like I am not just as guilty. :D

[MotoSxorpio]

^thought I was pointing that out a few posts ago?