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Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors


Dark0ne

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In response to post #28567949. #28568274, #28568494, #28571489, #28572304, #28575029, #28575269, #28593339, #28594674, #28596009, #28596734, #28602924, #28604599, #28614394, #28614759, #28620629, #28622439, #28622704, #28630589, #28630739, #28630799, #28630989, #28631099, #28649744, #28671734, #28674019, #28694069, #28695409, #28701504 are all replies on the same post.


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In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334, #28675154, #28676099, #28680064, #28683254, #28685979, #28688519, #28692194, #28693064, #28695724, #28698454, #28699009, #28699519 are all replies on the same post.


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If i may add something to this I'm mainly a Xbox user, but in the last few years started PC gaming because as a gift for my graduating High school i was given a Alienware laptop. i knew nothing of modding at the start ionly knew on PC it could be done legally, and did not know what to make of it, on console it is 100% illegal and will get your IP banded and account banned depending on the case, i want you all to know Console users have no bloody idea what mods mean, like what it truly means to be-able to mod you game, i tried explanation it to my best friends, at first they said there is not godly way it could be legal, and i showed them it was then they said oh well Bethesda is losing money, i showed them it just makes them money do to giving the game a long life, and finally they just said well i'm not going to do it because of ether one i'm only playing the game the way it was meant to be or well there will be virus on the mods and i don't want my stuff fracked up. my point is console users have no idea whats going on. they do not understand what this means or how to look at it, to some of them they think oh to i get to buy DLC form other people. the idea of payed mods was not great true, but i for one know how at least how Xbox players may react to this, if they find hey this is a really good mod like awesome better then dlc stuff they will want to give the author money, i bring that point up because console users do not think like PC users on this topic for them the idea of paying for mods may even seem normal i know that it will be done by Bethesda.net as for exactly how that anyone guess, just keep this in mind i could see the whole reason paid mods happened is because mods where coming to console. there where testing the water, the way i see it is there does need to be a good way for moders to get donations, if people think they did a great job and deserve money, they should have a easy way to do it, 2nd i do think at some point payed mods could be come real there will always be people who would see profit in something, and where there is one person there is scores of them, i could see whole teams making mods for the whole reason of making money, is it wrong of them to ask for money in exchange for their mod, well we can debate there forever, put there will be people willing to pay the money for it if the mod is good enough, if we don't like it we don't pay it, should there be away for us to give mod makers money for there hard work yes with out a doubt, now if Bethesda comes out and tells us they plan on making a way for use to give money directly to the mod author, good great we have a good way to do it, if they also say a mod author can know put a price tag ok, there are pros and cons to this, how many of each well i don't know, i can say at least two of each. int he end did payed mod fail yes it did, is it gone for good i don't think so, oh and on the payed mods the only thing i hated was how little of the money the author got, i feel they should have gotten at least 50% or more. and just to play devil's advocate, for payed mods to work someone need to play judge on if the mod is worth the money, and if it meet some kinda of quality standered. so for payed mods to work they need to be critiqued, and made sure the the buyer is not getting roped.

P.S. sorry this turn out longer then i thought i kinda rambled, and sorry for any spelling errors,
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  On 9/13/2015 at 3:08 AM, Ghatto said:
Funny. I did the same and I got endless results of "free" limited time only, give-away, special points trade system bullcrap websites. Where your "free" don't at all function like mods-of-old and is just like Steam inventory trading (which is something I remember Valve saying they might even try for Bethesda style modding). That or 'hacks' which can totally mess things up.

Not the same. Just search for "download counterstrike go skins", not "free counterstrike go skins".

 

But you may have a point after all - if a game is multiplayer with server managed by the game company, and the server enforces that sort of "anti-counterfeit measures", then they can corner the market, make artificial scarcity of free skins. Makes me glad I've never got hooked on that kind of multiplayer games.

 

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I remember months ago arguing here......I recently underwent surgery and nearly died twice...Life goes on...if we're lucky... So don't take anything for granted...good that there are people trying to get a couple bucks for those who mod...but this will end for everyone eventually. .thank those who deserve thanks ... pay them if you can afford it ... a minute from now it may not enter you mind and in 2 minutes it may never again...

 

if you mod...accept who you do it for and why...if its for money you picked the wrong game..

 

 

 

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In response to post #28696634. #28698309 is also a reply to the same post.


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@MrJoseCuervo
Then you have an unfair system like in the music industry, where more or less exactly this system is already executed. That means if Justin Bieber and Eminem are well known and get the big stages, my money goes to them instead of the small irish folk band I intended it to go to.
It makes the big ones grow and leaves the small ones with nothing.
I researched about the system in university and didn't manage to find a single positive point about it. Nice idea, but in result unjust. :/ Edited by Lamproly
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Seems like a misunderstanding between the two communities to me.

 

Mods feel hurt because Users are now telling them to stop making mods if they want to be paid for them. Mods are upset by this for good reason and tell users that for the amount of work and effort involved, they should get something back.

 

Users find out mods want money for their work, and this suddenly seems like a demand for cash rather than out of generosity. Donations are based entirely on the mood of the user, it's very fleeting and a weak form of income, it's charity. Feelings are fickle. Many would donate gladly from having such a great time from the mods, and with the button being visible enough they may even click it. It's a silent rule never to talk about it, because the moment you do it suddenly puts pressure on the user and makes it feel like they should do it out of obligation, which suddenly makes them less likely to do it. When it feels like effort, for something that is optional, all of a sudden the motivation or original intention vanishes. It's like seeing a bright rainbow, and rather than enjoying the scene deciding to try and catch it in a jar, and then watch it vanish as you try to get near it.

 

Users now feel like mods have become more demanding, and donations are now obligatory rather than based on how the user feels. From a users point of view, because of ignorance, they never expected or even thought that a mod could make a living based purely on modding. Many users believed that mods do it for experience, or to show off their skills to aid them in an interview, or (and the majority always believed this) because they wanted to better the community and enhance the game both for themselves and for everyone else. They're viewed like community or charity workers, they do it because they want to make peoples lives better, to make a difference, and to be thanked by the people they help without expecting much in return except appreciation.

 

This is obviously a flawed view, and many users are shocked and surprised. It's good that things have been brought to light, but now users feel like modders are telling them they "should" donate rather than leaving it up to the user, which make the very notion ever less likely.

 

If you want donations then make the button obvious, but don't talk about it.

If you want a more guaranteed form of income that's based less on something as fickle as the goodness as a persons feels at the time, then maybe a game or something might serve you better? Since the ToS of the majority of games are created so you can't make money off their product, setting it up in business form rather than charity is where the legal ground becomes shakey. Charity/donations is fine since it can't be linked directly to the mod/product, but directly asking for payment to gain x mod/product that modifies or enhances a game owned by another company is a breach in the ToS. The only way they'd make an exception is if they got a hefty cut, but then you're both misunderstanding where users of those mods come from.

 

The cold truth is most users will never give back and will always take. You're not betting on the idea that the majority would, you're betting on the idea that there are enough people that benefit from your mod that a small % of them will give back over a prolonged period of time, making the effort worth it. It's always a gamble, never expect to win, anything you get back is a bonus. Microtransactions and Steam sales only work because the majority buy up so that tiny margin ends up becoming a lot, you're hoping for that tiny margin that's variable in both amount and %. It's never a good bet.

 

..... I have no idea what i'm talking about. I just pretend I do.

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In response to post #28651299. #28652059, #28661619 are all replies on the same post.


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"Nobody's mind is ever changed."

I disagree. Mine has changed. And I guess the one of many.
The problem I see in this world is that too many are quick to criticize and too few to show appreciation. This is something I had to realize for myself, too, because you have to look beyond the border of what you see as granted.
The way via donation was existent on the Nexus but I never thought much about it. It's similar to the endorsements. If Nexus didn't remind me to give them I would forget it all the time. I was one culprit who wished for a more prominent system that is still kind enough to not pierce the user's eye ... a difficult task, and I appreciate the Nexus for asking our opinion and ideas.

PS: As far as I know donating already is completely anonymous. Edited by Lamproly
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In response to post #28651299. #28652059, #28661619, #28707844 are all replies on the same post.


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@Macintroll
Not greedy, just demanding. Ah the irony. A demand for donations rather than simply leaving it up to people to decide to donate. What a wonderful strategy. Edited by contrasia
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In response to post #28707544.


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"The cold truth is most users will never give back and will always take."

This is an interesting line actually. I do think that this is one of ideals that allowed the fighting to get so intense. By that I mean I never thought of myself or other mod-users are 'taking', and I think most don't.
I know modders definitely would appreciate a 'giving back' and that would intensify when they encountered users who complained about their work or unreasonably demanded changes or support.
But they were never required to 'give back,' because they never 'took'. Once a mod was published it was 'just there' unlimited in the way of downloads (ignoring server costs that this site does ask for money). It's a lot like my community council building a park down the road, I can appreciate it without payment as part of the collective public, or I can be a contributor in order to support its development.
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