Ghogiel Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) The DNA in food that you eat, itself is mostly broken down, basically this starts as soon as it hits your stomach, all the chemical bonds as more or less destroyed and it's broken down into smaller and component molecules, its not like you keep any sting of DNA intact after it is consumed and the body might go hmm yeah I'll just stick that sequence here. You won't grow gills from eating fish,however, there is apparently such a thing as an immune response to certain DNA sequences, apparently your body might actually know that a certain sequence is a bad bacterial pathogen, just from eating it, and give you an allergic reaction to it to let you know not to eat it. The only reason that it slightly matters for GM, is that the modified genes are basically bacterial based....This is for both plants and animals So basically you are either going to be safe or not in that regard... and in the long term, what's long term? Note that allergic reactions can be acquired at any point in ones life seemingly at random. But other wise it's perfectly safe eat. :laugh: personally I'd eat it. If I get allergic, then you have to not eat that. There is also more issues of inter breeding and GM going native, basically you can't control pollination either. So it will escape into the wild, it already has in many cases. Edited June 6, 2011 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 @brokenergy, since I have already said that I am from farming stock you should be aware that I am already fully conversant with selective breeding. That is not the same thing as the introduction of genes from other species (eg human into cattle, various animal into plant). All of that has happened and we do not know the long term effect. We don't know it because we have had it foisted on us in recent years. I know what Ghogiel is saying about the cross pollination issue, there was a huge row when the testing of GM wheat was allowed in a field in Devon...right next to an organic farm who were therefore going to lose their certification...until the field of wheat got mysteriously dug up overnight. Could this happen with GM animals breeding with non GM? Maybe. I object to the way that we are being more or less forced to consume this and believe it should be labelled if GM. And I am not convinced that it is the solution to the problems of the starving, as is so often said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Monsanto soya crop in the states. any farmers growing soya in certain areas, with their own seed, get cross polinated with the GM one. The company sends inspectors around, and tests your seed, farmers used to harvest seed to plant next years crop from their own fields, but the GM seed is patented and you must buy it directly from Monsanto or break the law, go to court and be bankrupted by the court fees, lose the farm, Monsanto has payroll lawyers needing to justify their paycheck. farmers just get pwned. So these farmers who aren't willing to switch to using the patented soya, are screwed if any surrounding fields are growing it, it's something like a spreading virus. You can't stop the birds and the bees, so eventually it will spread to surrounding areas, and so on. Though there is no evidence to suggest it maybe harmful if eaten, I personally doubt it for the most part, but for me, even though I am very happy to see less pesticides/chems/hormones/ etc in our food, it sounds like a bunch of cowboys are in charge. it isn't really regulated in that sense of outcrossing, and the money involved probably ensures that no one that holds the pen for writing laws will find any paper.. It is understandable for people to resent it, for a few reasons. Though most people seem to think they are trying to grow triffids or frankenfoods and attribute scifi movie disasters to it. It's hardly the case. Not all GM modified food is the same, it depends on the genes inserted. For example, genes taken from a human, or from other food stuffs that you already eat, shouldn't pose a problem, or great risk if you eat them. You already have that in your diet or in your body, it gets sketchy when you mess with your immune system and antibacterial genes are used. Which might do odd things to the bacteria living in your body. Which is pretty scary actually. making your strawberries sweeter and your potatoes bigger is pretty damn safe, even in GM terms. It's just not all the same thing. All it will take is one bad apple, and a sweeping blame across all GM food with occur. Fair enough if you don't want to be part of the experiment. :thumbsup: Edited June 6, 2011 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Monsanto soya crop in the states. any farmers growing soya in certain areas, with their own seed, get cross polinated with the GM one. The company sends inspectors around, and tests your seed, farmers used to harvest seed to plant next years crop from their own fields, but the GM seed is patented and you must buy it directly from Monsanto or break the law, go to court and be bankrupted by the court fees, lose the farm, Monsanto has payroll lawyers needing to justify their paycheck. farmers just get pwned. So these farmers who aren't willing to switch to using the patented soya, are screwed if any surrounding fields are growing it, it's something like a spreading virus. You can't stop the birds and the bees, so eventually it will spread to surrounding areas, and so on. Though there is no evidence to suggest it maybe harmful if eaten, I personally doubt it for the most part, but for me, even though I am very happy to see less pesticides/chems/hormones/ etc in our food, it sounds like a bunch of cowboys are in charge. it isn't really regulated in that sense of outcrossing, and the money involved probably ensures that no one that holds the pen for writing laws will find any paper.. It is understandable for people to resent it, for a few reasons. Though most people seem to think they are trying to grow triffids or frankenfoods and attribute scifi movie disasters to it. It's hardly the case. Not all GM modified food is the same, it depends on the genes inserted. For example, genes taken from a human, or from other food stuffs that you already eat, shouldn't pose a problem, or great risk if you eat them. You already have that in your diet or in your body, it gets sketchy when you mess with your immune system and antibacterial genes are used. Which might do odd things to the bacteria living in your body. Which is pretty scary actually. making your strawberries sweeter and your potatoes bigger is pretty damn safe, even in GM terms. It's just not all the same thing. All it will take is one bad apple, and a sweeping blame across all GM food with occur. Fair enough if you don't want to be part of the experiment. :thumbsup:That is a good point... I personally think we need to work more on space colonization, if done correctly we could likely set up a bio dome or something of that sort on the moon or mars, won't be as much as a problem if you grow single non gm crops, and single gm crops in separate parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Ah, there you make a very important mention Ghogiel, namely of the immune system. I have a bit of a personal interest in what I consume since I suffer from an immune system disorder, and take cytotoxic chemotherapy to surpress it. I am hardly the only one, there are A LOT of people with rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, lupus and any immune system disorder you can mention. Now this is a chicken and egg situation maybe - are these disorders more common simply due to advances in medical science and more definitive diagnosis (the likely scenario I think), or could it be that the modern lifestyle has played a part? Whichever it is, it is usual for immune disorder patients to be told to be careful what they eat and to incorporate as much fresh and uncontaminated produce as possible. This is why, for far more people than you suppose, GM food might be better avoided until we are much better informed about it. And it's also why the fact that it is being foisted on us grates so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Ah, there you make a very important mention Ghogiel, namely of the immune system. I have a bit of a personal interest in what I consume since I suffer from an immune system disorder, and take cytotoxic chemotherapy to surpress it. I am hardly the only one, there are A LOT of people with rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, lupus and any immune system disorder you can mention. Now this is a chicken and egg situation maybe - are these disorders more common simply due to advances in medical science and more definitive diagnosis (the likely scenario I think), or could it be that the modern lifestyle has played a part? Whichever it is, it is usual for immune disorder patients to be told to be careful what they eat and to incorporate as much fresh and uncontaminated produce as possible. This is why, for far more people than you suppose, GM food might be better avoided until we are much better informed about it. And it's also why the fact that it is being foisted on us grates so badly.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Health_risks That is interesting. The gene transfer study hasn't been discussed here to my knowledge, that's another possible health issue. I don't think it would have any issues if there was a lot of research on the specific genes before doing the modifications. The health issues seem to be caused from lack of understanding of the effects, and growing them like normal crops. If there was extensive research on certain foods and genes and it was grown in a facility designed for GM crops it is unlikely it would have health issues. I don't think GM is currently necessary anyways, I have said many times that I beleive the problem is the distribution of food, not the lack of it. Edited June 6, 2011 by marharth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenergy Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 @brokenergy, since I have already said that I am from farming stock you should be aware that I am already fully conversant with selective breeding. That is not the same thing as the introduction of genes from other species (eg human into cattle, various animal into plant). All of that has happened and we do not know the long term effect. We don't know it because we have had it foisted on us in recent years. I know what Ghogiel is saying about the cross pollination issue, there was a huge row when the testing of GM wheat was allowed in a field in Devon...right next to an organic farm who were therefore going to lose their certification...until the field of wheat got mysteriously dug up overnight. Could this happen with GM animals breeding with non GM? Maybe. I object to the way that we are being more or less forced to consume this and believe it should be labelled if GM. And I am not convinced that it is the solution to the problems of the starving, as is so often said. But that is my entire point. Selective breeding can come under GM because you are forcing the "gene" that are the most desireable to the animal. Sure it's safer but there are long term consqences for this as the humble bulldog shows. The bigger issue is not GM but people's lack of scientific knowledge. All it takes is one news story and everyone panics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Mutations are normal everyday things. And yes we have been selectively inbreeding those genes for thousands of years as it happens. There is still potential for this sort of thing to go wrong, amongst its out pollination and unethical business carry ons. It hasn't in the sense that it has made people sick or and any known gene transfer has happened,. It's call horizontal gene transfer. And that is actually how GM s*** is made in the first place. And again is a perfectly natural occurrence in nature. I totally did not know this existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GloFish Edited June 7, 2011 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Mutations are normal everyday things. And yes we have been selectively inbreeding those genes for thousands of years as it happens. There is still potential for this sort of thing to go wrong, amongst its out pollination and unethical business carry ons. It hasn't in the sense that it has made people sick or and any known gene transfer has happened,. It's call horizontal gene transfer. And that is actually how GM s*** is made in the first place. And again is a perfectly natural occurrence in nature. I totally did not know this existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GloFishI have heard of that before. I don't see much wrong with that either, gold fish are there to be looked at, modifying the genetics of a fish to make them glow isn't really a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 They are ornamental that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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