Enclave pretty much defeated at this point?

[kuunkulta]

 

E-DE presumably stopped for upgrades at Enclave Chigago outpost as mentioned in it's audio logs.

 

 

And here's a quote from the Fallout wikia (the vault) "Some members of the Enclave retreated to remote locations in other parts of the world, but when the bombs hit, they lost all contact with the main group."

Edited April 17, 2011 by kuunkulta

[Gracinfields]

Well we don't know what is happening in the South East of the US as well. The Command Crawler that we saw in Broken Steel looks like the Shuttle Transport pad in the real world. The only Place I know with an active one is in Florida, could this mean that a Weakened Cell of the Enclave might be still Operating in the South East? Maybe even have several states down there as their power base. Could also have a good story behind it, kind of like the Institue up in Boston Mass.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Having smaller enclaves of... Enclave troops... wouldn't be a bad thing, but I'd rather not run into them as the main opposition again. By the time Fallout 3 rolled around the highest ranking officer remaining was a Colonel, their president was a computer... their entire command structure was decapitated, again, they lost not one but two major bases, dozens of irreplaceable Vertibirds and hundreds of power-armored soldiers... enough is enough. Let them die already. Let us fight more of the Legion, or- better yet- show us the conflict between the Brotherhood and the NCR. Bringing back the Enclave again would be utterly groan-inducing.

[billygoat654]

I would love to see more enclave infact I would love to actually be on their side, in FO3 you can sord've be on their side but not really though I think if we do see more of them it will be a small group like the BoS in FONV. I don't think the group can be truly defeated since they are all over the place you would need to go everywhere to truly destroy them but they will likely never again be a force to be reckoned with, sadly.

[eLucifer]

Enclave is gone.

 

Mojave and original Brotherhood hide away in bunkers with decreased numbers.

 

Capital Wasteland Brotherhood is alive and better than ever. Just wait till they get Liberty Prime back on its feet.

[Lingwei]

The capital wasteland brotherhood and west coast enclave were always a joke in terms of series continuity.

 

In Fallout 1 (84 years after the bombs fell) the Brotherhood consisted of the remnants of the military forces who were stationed at the Mariposa military base. They were a small organisation made up of the descendants of those soldiers. They rarely accepted new applicants, in fact the players initiation was intended to be a suicide mission, since they didn't think anyone could go to the heavily irradiated remains of the Glow (formerly West Tek Research Facility) and survive. Even only 84 years after the war power armour suits were so rare that the only people who got to wear them were paladins. Everyone else (initiates etc) had to suffice with combat armour. The player had to either repair the power armour suit he found or trick the Brotherhood into giving him one. They were so non-interventionist and reluctant to engage in warfare that they refused to even send anyone to deal with the mutant army until the player was able to convince them that the mutant army was real and that if the Brotherhood didn't act right away then it would soon become strong enough to overrun the Brotherhood's bunker.

 

By the time Fallout 2 rocked around in 2241 (80 years later) the Brotherhood had been greatfly reduced in power and influence. Their war with the NCR damaged them further.

 

Then suddenly Fallout 3 rocks around. Not only does the Brotherhood which had been in decline since Fallout 1 suddenly have enough spare men to send dozens of them across the entire country (!) on zero evidence, but they have enough spare suits of power armour to equip every single person who wants one. They were even handing them out to raw initiates like our dead scripted death friend Initiate Reddin. To make things even more laughable Mr Lyons decided that simply marching his troops across thousands of kilometres of dangerous territory and keeping to themselves would not be a good idea. No, he decided it would be a swell thing to go into The Pitt and kill a whole bunch of raiders there. So we've gone from a Brotherhood that was non-interventionist and acting only in the fact of irresistable evidence, growing smaller and then engaging in a long and costly war which reduced their falling strength even more dramatically, to one that somehow has the strength and resources to send an entire unit equipped with power armour across the country on the guess that there might be something there. Bethesda was able to one-up their own ridiculousness of course by making the 'western' Brotherhood decide that instead of gathering technology as it had originally planned it should 'fight the good fight' by protecting the people over there from Super Mutants (don't even get me started on them, all though I will point out everything that is wrong with Supermutants on the east cost if someone wishes to ask me to). They tried to cover this by saying "oh but but, there were some Brotherhood members who wanted to keep doing what the 'real' Brotherhood does - we're calling them the outcasts, cause they are outcast from the Brotherhood of Steel". Sure.

 

The reason for these changes is obvious - Bethesda needed a 'good guy' for their game and they needed a 'fallout faction' so they could say "hey look! It's Fallouty!".

 

Obsidians Brotherhood of Steel is much more like the real thing. They are a falling power in retreat. Falling back to a final few hidden bunkers, keeping to themselves and their technology and not worrying about what's going on outside. You could imagine that if Bethesda had been making this game the Brotherhood would have been on the frontlines fighting against the legion!

 

Same thing happened with the Enclave. Contrary to what someone said earlier in the thread there are not 'hundreds of thousands of them'. If anything the Enclave was smaller than the Brotherhood since there were both less people in the Enclave to start with and they didn't allow anyone not born 'pure' aka on the oil rig in at all. In Fallout 2 they had two bases (in the whole world). Navarro, which was their outpost on the mainland, and the oil rig, which was their main base. Main base as in that's where most of the members of the Enclave went just before the war started (the Enclave was a shadow government organisation unknown to the vast majority of the US government, not the descendant of the US government itself as another person earlier said). When the player destroyed the oil rig with a nuke they effectively destroyed most of the Enclave, since most of their forces were there. The Enclave was not a massive operation.

 

Fast forward to 2008 and suddenly the Enclave had more troops and vertibirds to spare for the west coast than they had for their entire primary place of operations. The reason for this is clear as well. Bethesda needed a 'bad guy' and they needed another 'fallout faction' for that good old fashioned "Falloutiness".

 

In answer to the original posters question - yes. Even assuming that there were more bases than what the Enclave had in Fallout 2 the Enclave is spent as a force. There may be a base left in Chicago as mentioned in ED-E's voice logs, but there is nothing lefts but the remnants on the west coast and fulll power armour clad tribal initiates from the east coast have hunted down all Enclave on that side of the country.

[mdingman]

The Enclave was small to start with, consisting of the rich and powerful in the USA's government. They obviously increased in number over the years,but after the events of fallout 3(and the preceding games), they no longer have a president or a commander. They may have replaced them, but the replacements would be inept most likely seeing as how they would send all of their best men to take the Capitol Wasteland.

 

However, audio logs from E-D-E reveal that there is an outpost in Chicago.(however, the recording also reveals that a researcher at ADAMS AIR FORCE BASE was sending E-D-E to the NAVARRO OUTPOST. It doesn't bode well for the Enclave that the people at Adams Air Force Base were unaware of their MAIN OUTPOST'S destruction for 40 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). The Chicago outpost's Enclave members, however, have probably gone the way of the Mojave remnants, living in isolation or joining other factions.

[bwelch55]

The Enclave was small to start with, consisting of the rich and powerful in the USA's government. They obviously increased in number over the years,but after the events of fallout 3(and the preceding games), they no longer have a president or a commander. They may have replaced them, but the replacements would be inept most likely seeing as how they would send all of their best men to take the Capitol Wasteland.

 

However, audio logs from E-D-E reveal that there is an outpost in Chicago.(however, the recording also reveals that a researcher at ADAMS AIR FORCE BASE was sending E-D-E to the NAVARRO OUTPOST. It doesn't bode well for the Enclave that the people at Adams Air Force Base were unaware of their MAIN OUTPOST'S destruction for 40 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). The Chicago outpost's Enclave members, however, have probably gone the way of the Mojave remnants, living in isolation or joining other factions.

 

 

I have a feeling that the bethesda outcome of the midwest BoS will be the enclave joining them, or the midwest BoS joining the enclave.

[omega549]

o.k. So we have a FO3 hater.

 

1) the brotherhood in the East Coast found all the Power Armor in the Citadel, ie that is why they do not wear t-51b, instead they have broken (or very poor quality) t-47d (or something, i forget the designation). And Black Isles never had the brotherhood destroyed, so it may be that beth was alluding to the NCR and Brotherhood reaching a ceasfire in the years after FO2 release. It was FNV that kinda messed up that assumption.

 

Their war with the NCR damaged them further

 

Not true, this was going to appear in FO3 (Van Buren), the one to be made by Black Isles, which, if you didnt notice, was never made so therefore it is in no way Canon. So there is no way at all that this can be considered what happened, as the stuff FO3 added (which, unless you want to ignore FO3 and any future game) is the new Canon.

 

The Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel would still be fighting the NCR as late as 2274. After establishing a base at Helios One, the Mojave Brotherhood soon found themselves at odds with the NCR and its growing power in the region. Eventually, the NCR sought to control Helios One, and the Brotherhood, under the orders of their Elder, Elijah, refused to leave. This led to a confrontation between the two, and in the typical chain of events, the Brotherhood's superior technology was no match for the NCR's superior numbers. Defeated in one of the bloodiest battles in the Brotherhood's history, in which over half of the chapter was killed, the Brotherhood retreated to the Hidden Valley bunker, where Nolan McNamara (in light of Elijah's disappearance following the battle) took the role of Elder upon himself, and placed the bunker under lock-down. Since then, the Brotherhood's presence in the Mojave Wasteland has been confined to only a few scouting missions..

 

FNV has the brotherhood and NCR fighting, but the game does not say that this is a theater in the war, only that these two parties in one region are, maybe the brotherhood in the Core region and NCR are not fighting, ie this entry in the Wiki was wrote with the Canceled Van Buren story in mind, but it is not specifically stated in the game that the Brotherhood and NCR are fighting in the west. Now Im not saying they arent, they are, but your drawing conclusions from ambigious sources and this argument just shows how anything can be concluded from them.

 

Now, on to what really happened. Had you enjoyed FO3 and marveled at how well Beth integrated the story you would see what acutally happened. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2231, The beginning of the War between NCR and Brotherhood is never mentioned, anywhere, at all. So lets make some conclusions, 2254 - Elder Lyons leaves the West, makes the Citadel their home in the east in 2255, the elders in the west appointed him Elder and told him to do whatever (maybe cause problems with the NCR). Elder Lyons tells the player how about this, and how contact with the West became sporadice then nonexistent (alluding to the war and possible destruction of the West Coast Brotherhood).

 

2275 - Mojave and NCR are fighting.

 

So, since the War is never given a timeline, we can assume from how masterfully Beth integrated the story that the fighting began after 2255. Since they would not have been fighting it is very logical that the Brotherhood would have had the personnel for the trip.

 

And, as ive stated before, the Brotherhood found all those power armor suits in the Pentagon (which was the most important government building in america, which is why the expedition was sent and explains why power armor would be there).

 

In Fallout 2 they had two bases (in the whole world).

 

please, find the source of this outrageous comment, unless you know exactly how Black Isles made the game this is your opinion. Anyway, even if this was true, which it is not, Raven Rock was not held by the Enclave, the ZAX computer, John Henry Eden sent out the signal for the Enclave to come to it after the destruction of the rig (And Narravo is never destroyed in FO2, at least the player never witnesses it being destroyed. And they had three bases in the Core Region, Mariposa was held by the Enclave before the 2nd gen Super Mutants overran the place.

 

Although the Enclave survived the destruction of the oil rig, all traces of President Richardson was erased from history. Now the title of "President" is used there simply as a bogeyman to frighten children. Weakened, eventually the Enclave was finally shattered by the combined might of the Brotherhood of Steel and the New California Republic, but not before Autumn Senior led a contingent to the ruins of Washington D.C., to Raven Rock, to re-establish the Enclave as the dominant power in the nation's former capital. Those who remained were hunted by the Brotherhood and the NCR, some tried to integrate themselves into the NCR and met some success, although from time to time stories will crop up of an elderly Enclave veteran being arrested and imprisoned indefinitely for war crimes.

 

This exert from the Wiki makes more sense then what you said, and is offically canon.

 

When the player destroyed the oil rig with a nuke they effectively destroyed most of the Enclave, since most of their forces were there. The Enclave was not a massive operation.

 

I dont recall anywhere in the game that the Oil Rig was the place where most of the Enclave was, it was there command center, but they could very likely founded many more bases after deciding to involve themselves with the wasteland.

 

Furthermore, there is no design document or in-game lore that ever, ever, says that the Oil Rig was the Enclaves only shelter.

 

And truly, why would the most powerful people in the US take shelter in a oil rig when the bombs fell, Black Isles didnt really think that one out. Raven Rock much better fits the picture of a advanced bomb shelter.

 

Main base as in that's where most of the members of the Enclave went just before the war started (the Enclave was a shadow government organisation unknown to the vast majority of the US government, not the descendant of the US government itself as another person earlier said).

 

from wiki,

The Enclave is comprised mostly of descendants of government officials and military officers with ties to powerful corporations who retreated to a Poseidon Energy oil rig when the Great War started.

 

 

Come 2077, with total nuclear war rapidly arriving at America's doorstep, the President of the United States and a number of other members of the conspiracy left their posts to take refuge on the Poseidon oil rig. Here, the President himself set up a secret base from which the USA could continue to exist and wage war on China, with the eventual goal of retaking the continental United States. Some members of the Enclave retreated to remote locations in other parts of the world, but when the bombs hit, they lost all contact with the main group[1].

 

Really, does it even matter, your argument is very flawed. Should I even continue. Notice how it doesnt say at all that the majority of Enclave went to the Oil Rig...???

 

Fast forward to 2008 and suddenly the Enclave had more troops and vertibirds to spare for the west coast than they had for their entire primary place of operations.

 

yes, for once your are somewhat right, the Enclave had way to many troops in the East, but that was a design choice.

 

But they had vertibirds and Power Armor because it is alluded to that Raven Rock had manufacturing capabilities. Which is logical since it is a better military bunker than an abandoned oil rig, which again, didnt make much sense as a command center.

 

In answer to the original posters question - yes. Even assuming that there were more bases than what the Enclave had in Fallout 2 the Enclave is spent as a force. There may be a base left in Chicago as mentioned in ED-E's voice logs, but there is nothing lefts but the remnants on the west coast and fulll power armour clad tribal initiates from the east coast have hunted down all Enclave on that side of the country.

 

actually, in answer to the question, it is no. There is no way any person can conclude from the very, very ambigous sources whether there reamins any enclave.

 

Futhermore, it is mentioned in Broken Steel that the Enclave is "licking their wounds" it is never mentioned that they are destroyed, nor is it in FO2 or FNV. So any creative design can be made with the Enclave.

 

Finally, stop being so close minded and assuming that beth just messed up the series when you yourself have no idea how Black Isles even made it.

[Mcoffey]

Snipity

Yeah, pretty much all that. I didn't mind the Enclave/Brotherhood when Fallout 3 first came out, but looking back now their respective portrayals were pretty preposterous, lore-wise. I do hope the Enclave are done or at the very least done being Super Villians. Time for Beth to create some new antagonists, rather than "reinventing" old ones.