Update on NMM version 0.60 and FAQ

[Dark0ne]

Yesterday we released version 0.60 of NMM, which, as the announcement said, is a major update to the way NMM handles files.

 

While the update seems to have worked for a lot of people (as in, they installed it, NMM successfully migrated their files to the new system, and everything continued as normal), it also doesn't seem to have worked for some others. We're struggling to actually ascertain how many people it hasn't worked for because most people are focusing on sending us insults, hate, or, in some cases, death threats (yes, death threats...I can't help but laugh at the stupidity of it). Right now we know about 8,200 people have installed the latest build, of which, we've received about 40 bug reports from individual users about issues with 0.60.

 

First of all I want to thank those 40 individuals who have actually bothered to send us in a bug reports. Some were filled with hate and largely useless to us without more detailed information, but some were really, really excellent, level headed, detailed, and have already helped us to patch up some issues and release hot fixes. Similarly, some have also found ways around some issues and helped others to fix theirs while waiting for hot fixes to come. Again, you folks make us happy and embody what's good about this community. Thank you for your help.

 

One thing we have learnt from this release is that we need to improve the automatic update mechanism from within NMM. The update mechanism in NMM has been gimped for a long time after it was discovered, a couple of years ago, that it was inadvertently DDoSing our own web servers with the sheer number of people logging in to and using NMM with constant update queries. We pulled back the functionality a lot to prevent that from happening again. However, since that change, some things have changed in our server architecture (i.e. moving to our Cloud setup) that now make it more viable to make the update mechanism better. Specifically, we need to change it so you can see what's being changed/updated in an update before you can decide whether to download the update or not.

 

Frankly, I've been quite surprised at the sheer amount of people that have been blindly downloading and updating their NMM without checking the site news or change logs first. Of course, we take some responsibility, as noted above, for not providing that changelog within NMM's update mechanism itself. Hence why we need to change it, and change it fast.

 

It's also become obvious that we once again need to clarify the fact that NMM has always been in public Beta. That's not something we just say, it's written in big bold letters on the splash screen every single time you start the program up. When we release updates we release them on the pretense that first adopters, like any Beta software, are helping us to test the software. If you want to instantly install any new update to NMM as soon as it comes out then you do so in full knowledge that the changes made could inadvertently negatively affect your mod installation. If you didn't know that, despite the fact the word "Beta" is plastered all over the NMM download page and software, with clear warnings of what is involved with being in a Beta, then, guys...you need to read up about what you're actually installing on your PC before you do it! We're looking for help with our Betas. If you don't want to help and just want a stable piece of software to mod your game with then don't sit on the bleeding edge of the updates of NMM. Hold back and let the others who do want to help do their work. This is how we do things, it's how we've always done things these past four years since NMM's initial release. The system is going to change when we bring NMM out of Beta, but until then, that's how it'll remain.

 

There's still a lot of confusion in the air about the release of version 0.60, so I'll address them in a simple FAQ setup.

 

 

 

Q. Why did you release a piece of software to the general public that you knew would cause problems?

 

To put it bluntly, we didn't. In that we didn't know it would cause problems. For version 0.60 of NMM we tested internally, between the two NMM programmers and myself, before releasing it as an alpha in January of this year. 40,000 people downloaded that alpha and provided us with feedback, which we used to fix any bugs that were reported to us. After many months of being practically bug free, we released version 0.60 in to the beta yesterday.

 

This is exactly how the beta process is supposed to work. When we can't find any bugs we release it to others to help with testing. In the case of version 0.60 we wanted to have some more extensive testing done before doing a Beta release to the majority of NMM users, hence the Alpha. Once the Alpha was no longer reporting any significant issues, we released into Beta.

 

 

 

Q. If you didn't know this many people would have issues, why *are* so many people having issues?

 

We honestly can't work out how many people this version has been successful for because so few people are actually reporting bugs instead of sending us hate mail.

 

Really, it comes down to the practically infinite number of variations in people's PC hardware setups, software setups, game setups and mod setups. It is absolutely impossible to account for the sheer number of these variations and we're seeing, from the bug reports, some pretty weird things from how people have setup their systems and mod folders. It's the equivalent of turning up for work and not being prepared for a man-size duck attacking you with an axe. Funnily enough, you didn't think that could ever even be a possibility...

 

Major software companies spend millions (and millions) of dollars to make use of extremely advanced clusters of computers that try to account for every single one of these permutations and variables. Unfortunately, we don't have millions (and millions) of dollars. Hence why NMM uses Alpha and Beta testing and reactive updating to make it more stable.

 

 

 

Q. Why didn't you warn us that this update required major changes to the way NMM works/uninstalls and attempts to reinstall my mods? Why wasn't it in big red font?

 

I've address why the warning wasn't in the update mechanism from within NMM already. That's our bad for not making the information more readily available before presenting you with the chance to update, mixed with your bad for not checking up on what the update actually included before installing it.

 

There were two warnings during the process on top of the announcement news post which is on the front page of any Nexus site that uses NMM.

 

The first, in big red and bold font, was during the installation process. Here's a picture of it.

 

The second was in the initial prompt you need to interact with before version 0.60 will work. This prompt informs you that NMM needs to uninstall all your mods and then asks you a question.

 

If you click YES, NMM attempts to reinstall all your mods how they were before the update.

 

If you click NO, NMM will uninstall all your mods and leave you to reinstall your mods how you see fit.

 

If you click Cancel then none of the above will happen, but you won't be able to use version 0.60, allowing you to gracefully roll-back to your original NMM version through the normal method (installing the last version over the top of the usual NMM location). If you do this, nothing will have been changed and you'll be completely back to normal on the old build of NMM.

 

The text explains exactly what NMM is going to do. We further clarified in version 0.60.3 that if you select cancel you'll need to reinstall your previous version of NMM.

 

 

 

Q. Where can I download the previous version of NMM from?

 

The back catalogue of NMM versions all the way back to 0.50 of NMM can be downloaded from the same place they've always been located, on the NMM forums. You can access this thread by going to the forums and clicking the sticky thread, by clicking the version number on the NMM download page, or by searching for "Previous versions of NMM" on Google (or any variation of that search).

 

The download links are in the spoiler box tagged under the heading "Previous builds".

 

 

 

Q. It says it should take 5 minutes. Mine took A LOT longer than that to complete.

 

That is my bad. I wrote that "5 minutes" based on my own experience with this update to NMM using around 150 mods and around 20 scripted installers on my own system. Some people have reported much longer setup times depending on the power of their systems and how many mods and the types of mods they have installed. We'll get that changed in the next update of NMM so it's less misleading.

 

 

 

Q. Why are you doing this now?

 

The simple fact is that this change has long been coming. NMM was completely fresh code back in 2011, but it was based on (and built by the developer of) the Fallout Mod Manager for Fallout 3, which was released in 2008. Ergo, the architecture of NMM is 7 years old and based largely on a specific game engine. It's dated and it needed to be updated at some point so we could continue to move NMM forward.

 

See it like a major update to some software you've used where documents made in old software no longer work in the new software and need to be transitioned over.

 

We coded a migration progress for version 0.60 that would attempt to reinstall all your mods exactly how they were in the previous, old, architecture, but for some this migration hasn't worked completely for some people. We thought it would, but it hasn't. It wasn't some sinister plot to f' you over and ruin your day.

 

It's an extremely complex problem. We need to do this to continue to develop the functionality we want for NMM, but it's causing a nasty "band aid ripping" situation that is unavoidable, despite our best efforts to alleviate it with the migration process.

 

With the imminent launch of Fallout 4 it seemed prudent to release this version now, at a time when everyone will be starting completely from scratch with their mod installations, while allowing us to fix any niggling bugs that are in 0.60 that weren't revealed in the Alpha test.

 

 

 

Q. I don't care about profiles/I don't want to update my NMM any time soon. Will I be forced to?

 

No, people won't be forced to update for the foreseeable future. The last time we "forced" an update was version 0.52 of NMM, which was released in August of 2014. We only force updates when versions of NMM present issues with our web servers that require us to "cut off" previous versions from using our web servers for security or integrity reasons.

 

So when we say "force an update" we actually mean "won't allow you to use the automatic downloading/mod information updating functionality". There are still people using very early versions of NMM who do not require the online parts of NMM, and they have not (and cannot be even if we wanted to) forced to update.

 

We have no plans to force an update any time soon. And that's not Bethesda speak. We really do mean "we know of no reason why we would do it any time soon".

 

Having said that, we will no longer be updating the 0.56 branch of code (the previous version before profiles). So 0.56.1 is the final build that does not include profiling. There will be no more bug fixes or functionality updates for that branch, so that branch is now Final. This also means version 0.56.1 and previous versions will not include support for Fallout 4 when it is released. If you want to use NMM with Fallout 4 when it's released then you'll either need to bite the bullet and upgrade to version 0.60, or run two separate installations of NMM. One for your old mod builds, and one for new builds and Fallout 4 (and additional games we may add to NMM in the future).

 

We have a very small development team of two programmers working on NMM and we cannot spare the resources to continue two branches at once. It's just not feasible for us.

 

I'll say it once again for people who don't know. NMM is completely open source, so if people want to create forks of NMM following previous branches then they are most definitely allowed to, both with our blessing and with the blessing of the letter of the law. Similarly, if people want to help us with actually developing NMM then we would welcome it as well!

 

 

 

Q. When would be the best time to upgrade?

 

I'd say, when you're comfortable with the concept of reinstalling some mods (how many seems to completely depend on how the migration process goes and we've not found a pattern as of yet) and when you have the time to do it. For some, the migration procedure is taking mere minutes. Others have claimed it's taken many hours.

 

A particularly good time would be when you're wanting to do a fresh install of Skyrim (or the game you're playing) with a fresh installation of mods. Or, if you're very secure and comfortable with the process of installing mods properly: any time when you have the time to do it!

 

 

 

Q. I can no longer interact with mods that have scripted installers after I've installed them. How do I redo the options?

 

NMM now has three mod states; active, inactive and uninstalled.

 

If a mod is active, it's installed and turned on in your profile so should show in your game.

 

If it's inactive the mod is installed, but it's not turned on in your current profile so should not show in your game. It may, however, be active in other profiles you have.

 

If it's uninstalled then the mod is not installed and it's not active in any of your profiles.

 

When you interact with a scripted installer for a mod it will install the mod with the options you set. If you want to reinstall that mod and go through the scripted installer again you need to uninstall it, not deactivate it. To do so, simply right-click it and select "uninstall". When you go to install the mod again you'll then be prompted with the scripted installer, as per normal.

 

 

 

Q. Mods are now taking up double the space with this version of NMM. Why is this?

 

The short version: it's not.

 

The long version: we're using a system in Windows known as hardlinks and symlinks (depending on whether you install to different hard-drives or not, NMM picks the best one for the task). Essentially, these are shortcuts that your operating system uses to stop the duplication of data while still presenting data in multiple folders. For example, your "Documents" folder in windows uses a similar sort of shortcut.

 

Using this system, NMM installs your mods to a single folder you specify in the settings and then places shortcuts in your game folders pointing to where the mods actually are for the game you're using. The shortcuts in the mod folder look and act exactly how they would if the files themselves were in the mod folder, but they're not. This is what allows us to accommodate multiple profiles without continually installing and uninstalling mods, and in a quicker fashion than manually uninstalling and reinstalling the mods you want to use.

 

The folder will make it look as though the shortcuts are taking up a lot of space, but they aren't. If you use 1GB of mods then NMM will still only use 1GB of space, not 2GB of space like a quick check might show. The easiest way to test is to check your available hard-drive space. It won't have increased any more than before.

 

 

 

Q. Where do I report bugs?

 

If you think you've found a bug then please use our bug tracker. The bug tracker (and our forums) use the same login you use for the site, so simply login with your Nexus username and password to post.

 

There's also a link to it from within NMM, in the top right corner.

 

Please remember when reporting a bug to make it as detailed as possible. When you post bugs we've got to try and recreate the issue before we can fix it. Therefore the more information you can provide us about how to recreate the bug the more likely it is we'll be able to fix the bug faster.

 

Good information to tell us is: your operation system, the version of NMM you're using, what you did to trigger the bug, what you were expecting to happen, what actually happened, and the tracelog file (if one was generated). Normally, with this information, we can recreate the bug and fix it, or at least give you some detailed information back about why it's happening.

 

 

[JakeCWolf]

I'm just overly curious, probably more then is healthy for me, but any chance you'd share some of those death threats? With the names of the threatener blacked out to avoid backlash hating (or worse, return death threats).

 

I wanna see exactly what extremely butt hurt people will say when they reach such a threshold of hate.

[Gruftlord]

Thanks for clearing those thing up. And let the hate posts not get you too much.

 

I have a question about the install states. From your description it sounds lime i can only install a mod once, and not per profile. This may be bad if i have e.g. SMIM in profile A but not in profile B. Then if i install a mod such as the ruffled feather, which has an installer with an option to install for a SMIM setup, and and option for a non-SMIM setup. In this case i of course want to have the ruffled feather installed with different installer selection for each profile.

 

Does the new NMM account for that? Thanks.

[MrBeowolfDE]

I dont know why, but i cant play skyrim anymore. I updated the NMM and it reinstalled my mods.. But it f*#@ed everything up( NO bodies, no heads, no items anymore, shadow flickering.. Now i rolled back to version 0.55.8 reinstalled everymod by my self and now this game dont even start anymore... Im sad :(

[DuskDweller]

In response to post #28791689.

Gruftlord wrote: Thanks for clearing those thing up. And let the hate posts not get you too much.

I have a question about the install states. From your description it sounds lime i can only install a mod once, and not per profile. This may be bad if i have e.g. SMIM in profile A but not in profile B. Then if i install a mod such as the ruffled feather, which has an installer with an option to install for a SMIM setup, and and option for a non-SMIM setup. In this case i of course want to have the ruffled feather installed with different installer selection for each profile.

Does the new NMM account for that? Thanks.

You just need to reinstall it in the profile where you want it to have different options, NMM will remember about it.

[fgambler]

This should be released as a new mod manager then, if we can't update it without losing the data of mods installed then it's not really an update. Edited September 18, 2015 by fgambler

[whismerhill]

omg death threats

humanity stupidity never cease to amaze me unfortunately.

[Deleted3624098User]

It seems to be a lot of work to gain what in the end? What is the strategy behind NMM?

I would be more happy if I could by a copy of Fallout 4 on the nexus:-)

I am not trying to be a smart ass here, but we are still 10 mill customers, not modders or fans only on this site.

I have heard that I sound pissed on the nexus, but believe me, I am not, but this site is where I spend most of time, every day, week, year.... :-)

[playingskyrim]

Those who tweak mods after installing them need to note that those tweaks will be undone when installing the new version. Some mods I had to completely (ENB, custom skeleton, and others) reinstall to get them to work. Things seem to be going okay right now, but I'm a bit apprehensive about this new manager. There are new graphic glitches now too - missing face texture on one mannequin while the one right next to it is fine, grey faces, etc. I use LOOT and TES5Edit and had to re-clean some ESP's.

 

I think it a good idea to suggest that people consider a complete reinstall of all their mods when updating to the new version. It might also be helpful to have the new manager prompt to make a complete back-up of the Data folder prior to install.

[prinyo]

My question is why can't LOOT see most of the problems anymore?

 

I had a situation with Expanded Cities and other mods where the master was removed but the optional files were left intact and activated. Running LOOT - it says 0 errors. Starting the game - "Immersive Whiterun.esp needs ECaT_RESOURCES....". At some point I had 10 files with missing masters and LOOT was blind to that.