Settlements - A Complete farce

[Wolfmod]

The idea of setlements are wonderful and there are many games on the market right now that either incorporate it or focus on it. But Bethsida, what were you thinking because this "cashing in" is nothing but a tease. So let us begin with the lore and the assumptions. We aren't collecting rusty sheets of iron, rubber tires, cinder blocks and rotten planks of wood to throw up tin shacks as the raiders have done. Raiders create little. They take from others what they want whereas "the vault dweller" is a builder; he's building communities, relationships and trying to recreate a sense of community and establish law and order. Or, at least most vault dwellers are. The sheets of iron he creates for building are made from melted down coffee pots and wrenches so why do they have holes? Why does one roof segment look like an airplane wing? I'm making beds and furniture from raw cotton and yarn. I'm not collecting rat-infested matresses or two hundred year old chairs so why do I end up with stained matresses, chairs with broken backs and settees that look like they were merely moved from a city dump to my settlement?

 

And, the argument that the world doesn't have any manufacturing capabilities is inconsistant. The Power Crafting Frame I build isn't rusty.

The Chair I create for Mrs Murphy is pristine but once made it goes. Sorry creative people everyone else sits on crap. In Covenant, they have beautiful beds. Which tooth fairy granted them those?

And what about concrete, cider block or stone walls? It just needs cement - 1 part cement, 1 part sand, and 1 part water.

 

Then we come to assembling this tiny selection of crap. Those of us that enjoy building games have no cause to like Fallout 4. Simple things like allowing roofs and floors to be interchangable so that the roof of a building could function as the floor to a second level, having the snap-to function as an on/off toggle and allowing walls to snap-to vertically as they are horizontally would make a huge difference. I won't even start on the electrical power system that doesn't actually work as intended - the notion that we can't drill holes for wiring and the area of effect actions of conduits make using the on/off switch extremely difficult.

 

Bethsida have obviously responded to the market attraction of building games. And, why not? The fact that millions of players download the perfect body mods, clothing that looks awesome, or those many player homes that we wish we could actually live in should have been a red flag because Bethseda have failed to understand why those building games are popular to begin with. One of the first things you do when building a settlement is go around and pick up the scrap. it's true, you do need the resources, but by restricting this clean-up to only those things that give a resource, Bethsida has missed the point entirely. I want to plant a few rows of carrots. I have shovels and hoes because I've seen the NPCs use them. I can remove logs and giant trees with a click of a button but tubleweed and small dead bushes are beyond me. I have to plant carrots that get lost in the scrub. Why can't I create a flat, tilled vegetable garden? Why can't I level land? Why can't I collect rocks for my walls. Why, in one of my settlements, do I have a large 'non-referenced object' door lying there to annoy me every time I pass it? Why can't I remove some destroyed buildings? what's the problem with patching up houses that have leaky roofs? why can't I join anything to a building already standing? Why did bethseda create a building menu that was so limited and then restrict the ways each item could be used to the point where you build rubbish you don't care about?

 

Of course, the argument will be about the CPU requirements and the differences between player's equipment. What about settings? My PC tells Fallout what graphics and sound settings it can tolerate; why not allow my machine, regardless of the platform, to determine the "size" of the settlements I can create? Because as it stands, only those that don't care about building and chose player homes and body mods that are realistically awful will accept what Bethseda has offered.

[SMB92]

Just the fact the system is there is exciting, despite how clunky it is, like everything else in the game it is apparent this game was meant for the modders. Basically just a "mechanical" overhaul with a bit of a game built on top.

[Boombro]

 

Why can't I level land?

Changing landscape in-game seems impossible even for them, plus. It will always end up looking off, ugly or wrong.

 

 

Of course, the argument will be about the CPU requirements and the differences between player's equipment. What about settings? My PC tells Fallout what graphics and sound settings it can tolerate; why not allow my machine, regardless of the platform, to determine the "size" of the settlements I can create?

Consoles. And this doesn't seem like it can be enabled and disabled will-nilly on the fly.

 

 

Then we come to assembling this tiny selection of crap. Those of us that enjoy building games have no cause to like Fallout 4. Simple things like allowing roofs and floors to be interchangable so that the roof of a building could function as the floor to a second level, having the snap-to function as an on/off toggle and allowing walls to snap-to vertically as they are horizontally would make a huge difference. I won't even start on the electrical power system that doesn't actually work as intended - the notion that we can't drill holes for wiring and the area of effect actions of conduits make using the on/off switch extremely difficult.

Next patch maybe? When I watched the e3, it worked flawlessly without problems. So it likely a bug or a problem of some kind. Let hope it will be patched.

 

 

I can remove logs and giant trees with a click of a button but tubleweed and small dead bushes are beyond me.

That because those are classed as flora and they are not static objects. They are in the core vastly different in the way of working with them. Sneak don't work when crouching among them for example. It also seems scripts won't work on them, but I can be wrong since I'm not export on that.

 

All the logs and trees you have scarped are dead, yes? Those are static objects. Scarp function seems like a check box option or a script.

 

 

There is also other problems.

There should be stuff like proper rugs and containers. I understand the charm of living in a shanty, low leveled run down house, those are my favorite. But there is also leather chairs of the fancy kind and stuff like that. Why the only why to have a nice wooden dresser or end table is to have seems like I'm so lazy to close it well? I'm mean, those are easy to fix, and one has the option to have a nuke cola machine, made from zero.

 

Fancy, classy people who don't want to live in buy-able houses should have the chance to have fancy shanty towns.

 

I would say scarping a full house should yield a lot. I mean, 20 woods? Really? I should have way more. I mean yes, it will stop me from exploring for more and you guys want to me to do that, but I shouldn't have to empty half the wastes to build a small town.

 

Maybe it a good idea to make a logging place working like Skyrim? Have a quest to make it start working and then get some wood per day, week or month even? No? Oh well.

[Wolfmod]

I would really like to think so SMB92 but the confusion as to whether we are creating stuff from the raw elements or collecting ruined objects for reuse as the raiders do simply to retain that apocalyptic look is a basic design decision. Take the follower disaster they've created as an example. People think that a mod to allow more than one follower by changing "the number of followers" value will give us the vanila follower behaviours in previous Bethseda games. Because they tied follower behaviour to lock-picking (there's a real pearl if I've seen one) you have to have your follower with you to advance their quests, get them to like you, etc. So in order for you to have multiple followers and the extremely important controls that multiple followers require like assigning homes and telling them to relax in those homes while they continue to adore and respect you, mods that cater to multiple followers will have to lift the vanila followers from the follower system and make them standalone - you can have as many followers as you like but the game will think you have none. In other words, the failings of Bethseda aren't of ommission where partially functioning mechanics can be altered and completed by mods. These are designed features to ensure that someone on a PC built 15 years ago can play it so all that Bethseda have done will have to be overwritten and created from scratch. That is not mod-friendly. I'm just waiting for those who can actually mod to confirm this.

[JimboUK]

I wonder if part of the reason for so many limitations is possible save game bloat, we all know how badly their previous titles have suffered from that, every change you make will have to be saved. As for annoying door, you could disable that with the console, not ideal I know but if it's really pissing you off it's probably worth doing.

[Boombro]

 

I would really like to think so SMB92 but the confusion as to whether we are creating stuff from the raw elements or collecting ruined objects for reuse as the raiders do simply to retain that apocalyptic look is a basic design decision.

Seems that want they meant from options offered. Maybe they thought a fancy type would stay at a cleaner place. Which is say rather true for some.

 

 

 

People think that a mod to allow more than one follower by changing "the number of followers" value will give us the vanila follower behaviours in previous Bethseda games. Because they tied follower behaviour to lock-picking (there's a real pearl if I've seen one) you have to have your follower with you to advance their quests, get them to like you, etc. So in order for you to have multiple followers and the extremely important controls that multiple followers require like assigning homes and telling them to relax in those homes while they continue to adore and respect you, mods that cater to multiple followers will have to lift the vanila followers from the follower system and make them standalone - you can have as many followers as you like but the game will think you have none. In other words, the failings of Bethseda aren't of ommission where partially functioning mechanics can be altered and completed by mods. These are designed features to ensure that someone on a PC built 15 years ago can play it so all that Bethseda have done will have to be overwritten and created from scratch. That is not mod-friendly. I'm just waiting for those who can actually mod to confirm this.

Followers are indeed thankfully more complex this time.

 

Fo4 seems harder to mod this time hard, even though many say it was made empty, to be modded by the pc folk.

Textures, meshes, sounds and other data based repalcers need changes to ini files, esp files need changes to another ini file, menu files seem harder to deal with than the older games etc. So you can't be that far off the mark.

 

But it safer to say this case "it impossible or hard until proven otherwise by a smarter follow." as you say. This can be very simple, maybe even more than Skyrim.

[Wolfmod]

Boombro, you make some excellent points but just to clarify a few things. Whatever is in the Fallout world need not apply to settlements which are specific blocks of land with items that have totally different characteristics to everywhere else. There is no need to be able to remove scrub as objects. All you need is object placement and a vegetable garden as a flat scalable object that can be scaled and shaped to requirements and replace whatever graphics terrain is there. That is, if you delete/scap it, it leaves flat vacant land that you can build on. I was playing with games that did this back in the late 90s. Not only is it not new but really small Indie games companies have done it.

 

Consoles won't need to relay their settings. If you own a certain model of a certain platform you will have a set capability.

 

The building thing isn't a bug... You cannot snap a wall down from a floor and you cannot snap two wall sections vertically. I just hope they will change this.

[Wolfmod]

I wonder if part of the reason for so many limitations is possible save game bloat, we all know how badly their previous titles have suffered from that, every change you make will have to be saved. As for annoying door, you could disable that with the console, not ideal I know but if it's really pissing you off it's probably worth doing.

That damn door is a 'non-referenced object'. Markfordelete and disable are powerless. I hate that door for what it stands for. "Build a settlement! Be creative!" But we'll tell you what you can build as well as how and where you will build it. Every time I walk over it I think, "It's not really mine"

[SMB92]

I dont see why terrain editing was such a hard thing to implement, look at the CK. Maybe theres reasons why it cant be done while the game is running although i am unsure if thats the case. Like, you can obviously edit a character head mesh, albeit this has a different sorta system to it, but yeah you get the idea.

 

In this INI I found, there are somexsettings related to object limits, but i havent looked into them yet. Im not even sure they relate to settlements yet, mainly ove been looking for settings that "unlock" some of the cut gfx from the trailers. yhey would of had to have been using a normal yet powerful PC to make them, i suspect a HD pack isnt far off but still they clearly cut it down quite a bit, as you say, for the Pentium crowd. Yet their reqs are so high lol.

 

Dont even talk to me about followers. They are lucky they are essential, put it that way. The system itself has potential, i know one guy who has some bright ideas for it.

[Boombro]

 

this INI I found, there are somexsettings related to object limits, but i havent looked into them yet. Im not even sure they relate to settlements yet, mainly ove been looking for settings that "unlock" some of the cut gfx from the trailers. yhey would have had to have been using a normal yet powerful PC to make them, i suspect a HD pack isnt far off but still they clearly cut it down quite a bit, as you say, for the Pentium crowd. Yet their reqs are so high lol.

SMB92, does build-able objects have different names or file pathing?

I have the habit of roaming around npcs houses, I love that side of beth games. I may find the stuff of the repaired and of the not run down kind. I may be able to replace the meshes of those if the nifskope of fo4 was made.

 

 

All you need is object placement and a vegetable garden as a flat scalable object that can be scaled and shaped to requirements and replace whatever graphics terrain is there.

That may produce problems like clipping and needing many different types of soil ground.

One can use pots however, they are in the game and used for planting after all. You don't need farm land for them too.

 

 

 

Consoles won't need to relay their settings. If you own a certain model of a certain platform you will have a set capability.

That still need different coding. Beth and other game devs don't try to differ ports as much as possible these days for many reasons. Expect if it was a later port and that takes a long time.

Personally, I think beth should take this route. A later pc edition will save many troubles.

 

 

e building thing isn't a bug... You cannot snap a wall down from a floor and you cannot snap two wall sections vertically. I just hope they will change this.

That what I meant. If it doesn't work right, it a bug. At least, that what I think a bug is.