DoctorKaizeld Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 i might have missed it but on the wiki page: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Boethiah it never states ally of Stendarr or any variety of that phrase. i also check the Stedarr page. so i was wondering if you could point out where you got the information for me? it would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcat221 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 TES Wikia is about as reliable for information as a blind skooma-addled khajiit. I recommend you use UESP if wikis must be consulted, or The Imperial Library for something a little more definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorKaizeld Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) TES Wikia is about as reliable for information as a blind skooma-addled khajiit. I recommend you use UESP if wikis must be consulted, or The Imperial Library for something a little more definitive.dang it! i always read the wrong one. thank you for the correction. either way i still stand that his rule of deceit and betrayal is always useful when it is in hand with honor and mercy. he keeps the kings from straying from the path and keeping the trust and loyalty of his people by being the evil that will take his life if said king falls down the path of evil and or wrong. it says that this information comes from the events of Daggerfall so i recommend reading the plot to the game or playing it to see. i can see why them being allies is odd, but at the same time it could be a mutual relationship simply because they need the other to exist. Edited November 23, 2015 by qwertyzeldar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheObstinateNoviceSmith Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 This would only be true if that was the only rule he would want to topple. It isn't. Boethiah is the evil that will support the king's life being taken because they are king. That has nothing to do with whether they fall down the path of evil in wrong. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if they became king by betraying their friends and or family, Boethiah would actually be in support of that person. I would even go as far to say that if they rule in a manner that is very unjust such as through deceit and having people secretly murdered for disliking their unjust rule that Boethiah is actually less inclined to support their downfall. It's just not mutually beneficial. Boethiah gains nothing from the followers of Stendarr, and again, no one needs a daedric prince to do anything. It helps to have one helping you, but it is unnecessary to have their support in order to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Boethia is a... complex identity. The Book of the Daedra tends to gloss over many of the nuances of the Princes, and seems to be more focused on the political line of the 8(9) divines than any actual information on the Daedra themselves... Boethia is about the betterment of the self. Becoming better than you are now. Struggling through adversity and coming out stronger on the other side. This is best embodied by Her/His favoured children, the Chimer/Dunmer. The easiest route is, of course, violent... But Boethia's greatest champions were also shrewd diplomats and great leaders. Veloth was even a great healer. In fact, it seems that there's a limit to how far violence, of a physical sort, can take you. But that starts to push into CHIM territory... Anyway, Boethia's schtick with the overthrow of authority is about the rejection of law and the service to ones self. Authority is a rule of law, an establishment of hierarchy and social status, whereas Boethia demand one stand by their own personal merit. The overthrow is a test of that merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroGamerNinja Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 this video is a Warhammmer 40k parody making fun of the lore, but this episode explains why something that appears innately evil has a a good side to it as well: you dont have to watch the whole series just the one episode, but it is hilarious and a fun way to learn about 40k. anyways the idea is essentially that the world is not all black and white. the daedra are not pure evil their just jerks who like terrorizing humanity for kicks and to annoy the Aedra. oh and it should be noted that the Aedra arent all good either.^this. Manichaean views can only get you so far before it blows in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 ^this. Manichaean views can only get you so far before it blows in the face. That may apply in semi-real-world settings... But Tamriel follows some very different laws. It's impossible to achieve CHIM without being self-serving, and the whole POINT of Mundus is CHIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheObstinateNoviceSmith Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 First let me thank you both for taking the time to join in this bit of discussion. Lachdonin, I would agree if Boethiah ONLY had to do with the overthrow of authority. S/he doesn't. And add to it that they really like betrayal and it seems to me like they seem to like overthrowment (I know it isn't a word, lol) because it is like a major form of betrayal. Betraying those who rule over you, whether they are good or bad rulers. That's why I get confused here. Temple of Stendarr being allies with them seems way too far fetched when they hate some Daedric Princes who easily at least seem less evil/dark in nature. I also see no reason for Boethia to not betray those that worship him/her as that would be a deep betrayal almost unlike any other. That sort of thing should amuse Boethia. I'm even willing to bet that if a person can betray themselves, Boethia would think that the most awesome thing they've ever seen. What do you mean by CHIM by the way? I'm sorry but I don't know what that means. AfroGamerNinja, I also don't know what you mean by what you said other than you agreeing with what was said in that post, but I addressed the problems with that post as it pertains to this situation. I'm really starting to think that someone had something in mind when they thought of this originally, but somehow, somewhere, and or at some point, that was lost. And/or the idea wasn't fleshed out well enough for it to make actual sense as they explained it and/or their universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorKaizeld Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 We are talking about information from daggerfall. This might not true anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Lachdonin, I would agree if Boethiah ONLY had to do with the overthrow of authority. S/he doesn't. And add to it that they really like betrayal and it seems to me like they seem to like overthrowment (I know it isn't a word, lol) because it is like a major form of betrayal. Betraying those who rule over you, whether they are good or bad rulers. That's why I get confused here. Temple of Stendarr being allies with them seems way too far fetched when they hate some Daedric Princes who easily at least seem less evil/dark in nature. I also see no reason for Boethia to not betray those that worship him/her as that would be a deep betrayal almost unlike any other. That sort of thing should amuse Boethia. It's not so much about betrayal to Boethia, as the trial. Boethia didn't betray her champion in Skyrim, she sent a test to see who came out on top. Had her Champion won, or swayed the Dragonborn to his cause, then he would have remained her Champion. The 'Betrayal' that mortals perceive in Boethia is just Boethia testing them, to push them further. What do you mean by CHIM by the way? I'm sorry but I don't know what that means. CHIM is Ehlnofex for Royalty. It's a sort of meta concept hinted at in in-game sources like the Mysterium Xerxes, 36 Sermons, that one Moth Priest Journal... Basically, it's the comprehension that reality isn't... real, but an elaborate delusion born of a single mind; The Godhead. Under normal circumstances, you can't rationalise this. You basically encountered the logical contradiction of "I exist as an individual within reality" and "reality doesn't exist". It's called Zero Sum and you basically wink out of existence. If you Love enough (and this is a weird love. it's an expression of personal will and trueness of self, not romance) you can basically say 'Eff that' and keep on existing anyway. The knowledge that reality is a singular expression, and part of ones self, gives those who achieve this state some innate advantages. In the grand scale, it basically puts them one step above the Aedra and the Daedra, but one below Amaranth (which is when a CHIM forms their own dream, becoming a new Godhead). There are only 2 known or implied CHIM. Talos, and Vivec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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