Comparisons with Skyrim

[Raycheetah]

Raiders, like so many other criminal cultures, are simply averse to real work. They see it as demeaning and unworthy, when they can take what they want by violence, thus glorifying their own sense of power. Ditto Skyrim's bandits. ='[.]'=

[jcdenton2012]

Regarding the comparison one thing that you guys haven't talked about is the map design. Not the map size, but the map design. What I am talking about is why Fallout has fewer dungeons because in actual reality you require a surface structure in order to justify an underground network of tunnels i.e. (a dungeon). For the Elder Scrolls no such limitation exists since lore validates the existence of hidden Dwemer ruins or other hidden underground tombs without there requiring an above ground structure. My point to this being, the Elder Scrolls games have a vastly superior capability to pack in more ruins per-capa-cell than Fallout by design rather than by map size. If you were to compare these things, you might find 1-2 obscure tunnels which lead into hidden vaults, but only in an Elder Scrolls game are such things far more frequent, averaging 10-20 such large dungeons per game and hidden by such means.

[Deleted31005User]

Ive been playing Fallout 4 for a few weeks now and I can already tell I'm not going to pour my love and time into making mods for it, the whole game just feels too bland, too empty, too buggy.

Bethesda, in my honest opinion, created this game way too quickly and they cut corners wherever they could, and its really showing in-game.

 

Especially after I discovered that only 3 small towns were all we got and the npcs there don't even offer that many quests.

Granted, I REALLY enjoyed some of the followers and how they have an actual story to tell you, but everything else in the game feels like a complete rip-off from Fallout 3 except with some better, yet still lacking graphics for 2015, slapped on its face.

 

I mean come on, after you play the game for a while and you slowly take off those rose-tinted glasses you simply cannot deny the scarcity of diversity in this game.

 

Sure some buildings are unique, but the vast majority is just copy paste, like Chinese bulk created for quantity ready to be dumped on the market, not to mention that 90% of those buildings are closed off.

And while most of you seem to say that Skyrim had mountains and Fallout does not, which is why the map is about the same size, is actually completely wrong because Fallout has tons of empty filler buildings, so I'd say the actual map size compared to Skyrim is way smaller in that regard.

 

But lets take The Combat Zone for example, a very unique interior and when I first entered it I was like "wow we can so some awesome interaction with enemy factions here and fight in the arena", but nop, just another wasted potential where Bethesda slapped some regular raiders into it that has little to no importance to the game.

And Fallout 4 is littered with things like this that have great potential, but it was either never implemented or Bethesda just ripped it out of the game.

Yes, Combat zone was supposed to be an arena where you could fight, there even left-overs of voice files exactly for that purpose that are not used in-game, basically they just cancelled the whole thing and slapped raiders in it instead.

 

Also, map feels TINY and I miss the underground metro system where ghouls would swarm me, actually I miss tons of things in this game compared to older Bethesda games.

 

So to me it painfully obvious that this game is rushed, but I'm going to stop my ramble right here before I even speak about its optimization.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Guest

[Gilibran]

My take on it understanding what you mean is simple.

 

First off, as i said before in another topic, we are overly spoiled, and i mean the worst spoiled brats in the world with the amount and quality of the mods for Skyrim. Lets be honoust when was the last time you played an entirely vanilla Skyrim from start to finish without a single mod?

 

Elder scroll games rely less on DLC, the game out of the box is already packed with stuff. Fallout games are not, FO3 main quest? Same length perhaps even shorter then Skyrim. NV felt longer just because all of the factions you had to/could visit.

 

Fallout relies on expansion DLC and we will have to wait to see where it goes.

 

Second thing is, ;-) ;-) ;-) why would Bethesda put in the hours and effort if everything they do will be replaced anyway ;-) ;-) ;-) We know modders can and will do things Bethesda could not come up with in their wildest dreams. So what they did was simply provide a modding platform. They focused on making and releasing a bug free as possible game and succeeded excelently as far as i'm concerned. I have not had a single game breaking issue, CTD on the vanilla game and with 85 mods in over 100 hours of gameplay.

 

You could say, and i'm pretty convinced of it, Bethesda has simply been lazy on the content side, they said, ok make it as stable as possible and take a good look at the mods for Skyrim. For instance. Apart from Diamondcity and Goodneighbour, almost everything is open world. You had to load in to every single town in Skyrim. But no matter how big your settlement is, it's basicly the Open cities mod.

 

Yes you could say, yeah easy for them the world is empty anyway. But that's not the point, they took the best ideas that should have been in Skyrim vanilla and put it in for us. No need to console racemenu, you can change appearence right away, just dish out some caps. Weapon mods from the start brilliant, they simply made a mod platform that's all, flight, i'm sure coding to fly your own vertibird will be fairly easy, vehicles, same thing.

 

It's us, the players and modders that have to refine this game from now on, agreed as said that is very lazy, but what is possible with FO4 edit already, and untill the Geck is released and all the DLC and we know what Bethesda really want with Fallout, just try to enjoy it and not compare.

[Deleted31005User]

Are we spoiled? Perhaps...

But to me its clear that Bethesda doesn't care much about trying to improve their games, sure we got mods for weapons, a buggy settlement system with AI and navmesh issues, and some vertibirds flying over my head that drop dead like flies all over the Commonwealth.

Mods can fix 'some' things for sure, but why do we always have to rely on mods to fix stuff that is basically broken in the vanilla game???

A mod should be a modification, not a frigging patch to fix errors that have been blatantly ignored and repeated for over 10 years now!

Seriously, Bethesda is just lazy, its almost like they quickly create something without even testing it properly and then ship it off for sale in the stores asap while hyping things up way out of proportion.

 

But to me the real issue is the lack of DIVERSITY and CONTENT.

I'm not going to argue with you, if you prefer to keep Bethesda on a pedestal for making a boring game that runs 'Okay' even though I can easily argue that there are tons of bugs all over the place, well then that is your prerogative.

 

And yes you are right that its still early to tell how the DLCs will turn out and I will most certainly play those as well, but the fact that I am already getting bored after only playing a few weeks is not a good sign for me personally.

My rose-tinted glasses are dropping and I will no longer put Bethesda on a pedestal for releasing games in such dire condition, it is NOT the modder's job to fix things, that responsibility lies with Bethesda first and foremost.

 

Back in the day Morrowind was a truly innovative masterpiece, overstepping all bounds, and the same could be said about Fallout 3 and in some regards Oblivion as well.(I never played the other Fallout games btw)

Then Skyrim took a big dip downwards, but luckily over time mods saved that.

And now I honestly feel that Fallout 4 is even less innovative, for an end 2015 game it should have way more then just this...

 

A company needs to create innovative and good quality products, that's all I have to say about it.

(but sadly, most of the gaming industry seems to cater to the young and dumb, watering down all products to appease the masses, until its just mediocre enough to sell for a profit.)

Edited January 8, 2016 by Guest

[Boombro]

They really should expand their core team.

 

Everyone is like "at least beth doesn't make games yearly." but they just can't. The team is tiny as hell for something as big as TES and fallout. TW3 has 300 people, EA has way over 500 and they have just less than 120. The fact they had 7 years for this and it still rushed by Zen is just bad news.

 

One can see some improvements here and there, but it just pale. One can stuff that are cut. There some notes and stuff that hints about quests.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Boombro

[Spacemunkey79]

My take on it understanding what you mean is simple.

 

First off, as i said before in another topic, we are overly spoiled, and i mean the worst spoiled brats in the world with the amount and quality of the mods for Skyrim. Lets be honoust when was the last time you played an entirely vanilla Skyrim from start to finish without a single mod?

 

Elder scroll games rely less on DLC, the game out of the box is already packed with stuff. Fallout games are not, FO3 main quest? Same length perhaps even shorter then Skyrim. NV felt longer just because all of the factions you had to/could visit.

 

Fallout relies on expansion DLC and we will have to wait to see where it goes.

 

Second thing is, ;-) ;-) ;-) why would Bethesda put in the hours and effort if everything they do will be replaced anyway ;-) ;-) ;-) We know modders can and will do things Bethesda could not come up with in their wildest dreams. So what they did was simply provide a modding platform. They focused on making and releasing a bug free as possible game and succeeded excelently as far as i'm concerned. I have not had a single game breaking issue, CTD on the vanilla game and with 85 mods in over 100 hours of gameplay.

 

You could say, and i'm pretty convinced of it, Bethesda has simply been lazy on the content side, they said, ok make it as stable as possible and take a good look at the mods for Skyrim. For instance. Apart from Diamondcity and Goodneighbour, almost everything is open world. You had to load in to every single town in Skyrim. But no matter how big your settlement is, it's basicly the Open cities mod.

 

Yes you could say, yeah easy for them the world is empty anyway. But that's not the point, they took the best ideas that should have been in Skyrim vanilla and put it in for us. No need to console racemenu, you can change appearence right away, just dish out some caps. Weapon mods from the start brilliant, they simply made a mod platform that's all, flight, i'm sure coding to fly your own vertibird will be fairly easy, vehicles, same thing.

 

It's us, the players and modders that have to refine this game from now on, agreed as said that is very lazy, but what is possible with FO4 edit already, and untill the Geck is released and all the DLC and we know what Bethesda really want with Fallout, just try to enjoy it and not compare.

Games should not rely on either mods or DLC to construct a complete game. At what point in FO3 /FNV/ Skyrim is it not a complete game without DLC? I have seen people claim how the poor ending narrative will be wrapped up once dlc arrives, as if it's ok to ship a game without a proper ending. As consumers we should never just sit back and enjoy and not compare a COMPANIES prior product installments. Fact is is there is no innovation in FO4 as a matter of fact the real time settler mod that inspired FO4's new gimmick was less buggy and more user friendly. This installment has less features than the previous 2 fallout games, it's a shooting gallery theme park.

[Boombro]

What wrong with the ending? Do you mean an ending with all stuff you have done?

[Spacemunkey79]

A lot of people complain about no ending slides, personally I didn't care about that; what I did care about is how none of your choices in the game other than which faction played had any bearing on the ending cut scene. The argument I'm given is either "the game continues after the MQ so an ending would be dumb" or it will wrap up in DLC. The problem with the first argument is that the ending slides aren't about immediate consequences but the far reaching affects the player had on the world as whole and could have given closure while still making it ambiguous enough in the present. As for the DLC argument, that should go without saying, making you buy content that should be in the vanilla game is EA level BS. Fallout is about your choices and interaction with the world and FO4 does nothing to address those choices in the end game scene, it's impersonal and very generic.

[Boombro]

Okay But how it the game is not complete just because it bad? If something is bad, it just bad.

 

Plus, hardly an quests you do effect the world as a whole expect the main quest and the factions themselves. If it was something like bombing megaton, becoming a vampire, killing rich people for ghouls ok. But there nothing like that in fo4 as far as I know. There nothing worthy as an end game slider whatsoever.