"Try Before You Buy"

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

Ah yes..... Steam..those lovely folks that want an internet connection verification so I can play a single player game that I already own.

most games only need the internet for initial install and start up. you dont need internet after that though i actually havent owned a single player game that needs internet to start the game... so i dont get the issue.

 

 

Assuming the game is available on Steam......

most are, but valid point i retract my statement to "mostly invalid"

[JimboUK]

Ah, but then, you have the other side of the coin.... The publishers that are oh-so-concerned about piracy, that they slap multiple layers of DRM on their games, that makes them pretty much unplayable for the folks that actually paid money for them........ But, the folks that pirated the game, whose copies don't have all the DRM, their games run great....... So, folks are more motivated to pirate the game, so they can actually expect to be able to play it. (Yep, I am looking at YOU EA.)

 

Now, I in no way advocate piracy, as yes, it IS stealing. What I would like to see though, is game companies figuring out that their anti-piracy measures are actually counter-productive...... But, I will never convince any bean-counter of that.

 

I've said for a long time that certain DRMs encourage piracy, heavily DRM'd games tend to get pirated more, there was a fantastic article that I can't find now which backed this up with figures. That said DRM is no excuse, people can buy the game and then use a crack to get rid of the DRM, it's something I used to do all the time when disk based games were commonplace, I'd paid good money for the disk and I'd rather it was put away safely after installation.

[Nixsy]

 

 

Valid point from a developers point of view =). I still feel that there should be a way to test a game for a short period or up to a preset level to see if it is worth £40. Example: If I had tried dragon age inquisition before I had bought it I would have had £40 to spend on a different game.

this point you're making is invalid with Steams return system.

 

i bought 17 games during the Steam sale and returned 11 of them after i found them to be less then desirable.

 

Now if only everyone would play by those rules =/

 

http://i.imgur.com/eajdFsf.png

[HeyYou]

 

Ah, but then, you have the other side of the coin.... The publishers that are oh-so-concerned about piracy, that they slap multiple layers of DRM on their games, that makes them pretty much unplayable for the folks that actually paid money for them........ But, the folks that pirated the game, whose copies don't have all the DRM, their games run great....... So, folks are more motivated to pirate the game, so they can actually expect to be able to play it. (Yep, I am looking at YOU EA.)

 

Now, I in no way advocate piracy, as yes, it IS stealing. What I would like to see though, is game companies figuring out that their anti-piracy measures are actually counter-productive...... But, I will never convince any bean-counter of that.

 

I've said for a long time that certain DRMs encourage piracy, heavily DRM'd games tend to get pirated more, there was a fantastic article that I can't find now which backed this up with figures. That said DRM is no excuse, people can buy the game and then use a crack to get rid of the DRM, it's something I used to do all the time when disk based games were commonplace, I'd paid good money for the disk and I'd rather it was put away safely after installation.

 

Way back when, before even oblivion was released, a selection of the staff at BGS who actually posted on the forums admitted to using a no-CD crack for Morrowind, just to make their lives simpler. :D

[sunshinenbrick]

Another element to all this is having an impartial market (i.e. free) that allows games and other media to be scrutinised fairly without people writing reviews and promotions with a noose around their neck.

 

This would mean that developers and movie studios etc.. will not so easily be able to flog us rubbish at a premium.

 

Piracy at its fundamental level is a two trick pony, because during colonial days, for example, you could get accused of piracy as a homeless person rummaging around some scraps, if someone of distinction took a disliking to you. On the flip side though, piracy is not restricted to the poorer classes. In fact the piracy of the wealthy is a direct contributor to the 'piracy' of the peasants. It's a very vicious circle really, much like all human suffering...

 

Aye the world has not changed that much, just that now we all surf the seas of the web rather than the actual waves. Well those of us fortunate enough not to be in a dingy in the Mediterranean that is :confused:

[JimboUK]

 

 

Ah, but then, you have the other side of the coin.... The publishers that are oh-so-concerned about piracy, that they slap multiple layers of DRM on their games, that makes them pretty much unplayable for the folks that actually paid money for them........ But, the folks that pirated the game, whose copies don't have all the DRM, their games run great....... So, folks are more motivated to pirate the game, so they can actually expect to be able to play it. (Yep, I am looking at YOU EA.)

 

Now, I in no way advocate piracy, as yes, it IS stealing. What I would like to see though, is game companies figuring out that their anti-piracy measures are actually counter-productive...... But, I will never convince any bean-counter of that.

 

I've said for a long time that certain DRMs encourage piracy, heavily DRM'd games tend to get pirated more, there was a fantastic article that I can't find now which backed this up with figures. That said DRM is no excuse, people can buy the game and then use a crack to get rid of the DRM, it's something I used to do all the time when disk based games were commonplace, I'd paid good money for the disk and I'd rather it was put away safely after installation.

 

Way back when, before even oblivion was released, a selection of the staff at BGS who actually posted on the forums admitted to using a no-CD crack for Morrowind, just to make their lives simpler. :D

 

 

One of the patches removed Safedisk if I remember correctly, the game used to freeze when it checked the disk, it was a perfect example of DRM making the legit product inferior.

[DrakeTheDragon]

Well, from my point of view "try before you buy" as an attempt to justify video game piracy is a fail by design.

 

"Trial" means it's used to "decide". "Decision" means you could also come up with "won't buy". "Not buying" would mean "just stealing", thus a crime.

You can say there's no harm done, IF you "always" buy the game you "tried" for a while... but this does invalidate the use of pirating it for the trial, if you cannot do anything but buying afterwards anyways, to prevent your trial from being a crime.

 

So what is won? Why not just only buying it to begin with? "Not" buying it after you played it for a while would make you a criminal anyways, so there's no other choice, and also no use to "try before you buy".

Back at square one, discussion pointless before it began.

[sunshinenbrick]

I think it is important to know what we are all talking about when we banter around piracy this and piracy that. There is illegal piracy and there is 'legal' piracy, it depends on whether said piracy is beneficial to law enforcers/government/companies, or not. Crikey just look at the pirate culture in legal tax avoidance around the world, things are becoming so blurred that in my personal opinion it now just comes down to personal morals and perhaps karma.

 

Let me be clear, I am no pirate (in the selfish, stealing, take without giving, cutthroat and exploititive sense) but I bet there are establishments out there who would like to make me and others like me pirates if they could get away with it and plunder some ye treasure from us. Keeping backups of my data and media, lending things between my brother or friends, being aware of companies pulling the plug on centrally controlled products, modding, tinkering or even good old fashioned fair use (linked so people are clear what I am talking about) - All of these things might be considered illegal through certain eyes (some even are officially illegal but few actions are ever taken because it would cost more to pursue than would be profited from it)

 

In the other camp, other examples of such line dancing are like what has been discussed regarding overly intrusive DRM, pushing people into subscriptions for content they already rightly own becasue that was the terms and conditions they originally agreed to through transaction, aggrerssive territorial pissings between companies that break things that already work just to increase competition, oligoploy of markets in genereal giving the illusion of choice, muzzling of journalists, and NDAs or other such imposed contracts that can be used to manipulate markets and/or force parties to undermine the end user.

 

This is by no means limited to computer games either and we see it in the trend of software deployment such as Windows 10 where things will get increasingly hazy if you choose not to upgrade and/or try disabling 'features' or any kind of general tinkering. Then there's Apple... (who to their credit are opening up... a little). Heck the biggest irony of all this being that these giants of technology were built on the 'soft piracy' of ideas, innovations, methods and practices. Friendly rivalry or lack of interest at the time for nerdy pioneers, but whatever it was things have changed with lawsuit after patent dispute after lawsuit culture we have now.

 

Let's not forget that yes things are still relatively open, but this is not by magic. Their are individuals, groups and organisations that are keeping these dialogues open, challenging rulings and generally keeping the forces of evil at bay. The freedoms we have are not granted, they are fought for with blood sweat and tears.

 

My point is that I think these things are somewhat in the eye of the beholder, and the world over has different motives, incentives and agendas as to what will be justified as piracy or what is simply 'good business'. Like some isolated fishing community or forest tribe that find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time by the wrong people... you know those pesky, pirating, poaching, good for nothing, profit stealing indigenous peoples that destroy everything.

 

While this topic was started with 'piracy' in mind, for me it is not really piracy that is the crunch of it but is rather a result of a wider issue. Aging economic models and lack of trust from both the consumer and provider is the underlying cause. Trying before you buy something is as old as the hills but is a deal that both parties need to enter into in order for it to work, and not get lumbered into the piracy party. What I took from this topic being started is a similar frustration vented out in other discussions, and that is the lack of transparency (spoiler free of course), real competition, public realations, honesty and yes, try before you buy schemes in the markets today that mean consumers are getting continuously shafted because so much return on investment is invoved that fewer and fewer risks are being taken. The markets become stale and supply outstrips demand, but it does not stop those returns on investment.

[Thandal]

Dark0ne's stance on this topic is clear.

 

Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:58 PM

 

Lets establish some hard facts: piracy is illegal. Whatever excuse you might give for why you've pirated something you cannot escape the fact piracy is an illegal act. As a result, you have to be as thick as two short planks to admit to doing it publicly on a site like the Nexus. A lot of our rules rely on you possessing some semblance of common-sense, and if you can't prove you have it then you're likely to get banned. Admitting to piracy is one of those common sense things. You admit to it, you're stupid, you get a ban.

We have a strict anti-piracy policy on these forums and the Nexus sites and we take a proactive and pre-emptive stance on anyone we believe is using a pirated version of any game or software.
If you give us reason to believe that you are a software pirate you will be instantly banned.

Why do you care so much?
We support the people and companies who give us the games, tools and other entertainment mediums we all take for granted and believe that all of you should too. Why should we, the people who legally purchased our games, support those members of the community who haven't?

Similarly our success relies on the support provided by the game developers who give us these great games to mod. If they know the Nexus is a haven for pirates these game developers are going to be much less inclined to support the site, or perhaps even modding in general.

We do not care for the politics of software piracy or why you may or may not believe that piracy is or is not acceptable. For us, and on these sites, it is unacceptable, and admitting to any sort of piracy here gets you a one-way ticket out of here

 

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