Rules of Forum use?

[ziitch]

...Why not look around for another moderator? Someone who's well-connected with the forums and regular members, is a regular themselves, and has good experience with the site and modding. Perhaps even have a bit of an artistic view as a bonus? You've kind of lost that view when Slof left.

 

Although, not to offend anyone, it does seem that the moderators do grow disconnected with the people here as their duties really take over their free time, where before they would spend it communicating with the people they now moderate or for building mods.

[Rabbit1251]

Text removed by author.

 

 

Rabbit

[Maigrets]

Perhaps not a NEW rule but certainly one that was not enforced to any degree. I think the main issue is going to be this...no one has the time to moderate that place...and the ones that get looked at will be the reported one (and I agree with Eiries on this one about the anger/vengeance reports as I think it may have happened already.) So some are going to get by while others won't then there will be a bunch of hoopla of why did so and so get banned and not so and so.

 

Soo...

 

I will also say this. I have 110% supported Dark0ne and this place since day one. I have said in writing that the day I no longer agreed or could accept the rules...as this is Dark0ne's site and he can do as he pleases....then I wouldn't play here anymore.

 

So I am not..at least not in the image share. I like to put whatever I want in the images and I have so much crap I don't know any longer what is a rip, illegal or where I got it all. *shrug*

 

So no more images for me. I will find somewhere else to post them.

 

Also....I think it is sad in a way. The site has grown and there are great files here...and I do appreciate all the work and sweat that goes into this place..I do. But I see less and less moderator involvement in actual threads, they have less time to help and do a lot of the stuff that was being done when I first came here. One of the great things about this place is I felt and now at almost 40 I would hope so) like an adult here. I don't feel like that anymore. I feel like I need to watch everything I do and say. I see more banning post that anything else. I still think that chat place is nothing but a heartache. Moderators seem on edge and don't seem to me, at least (and this is all my opinion so you can wipe your behind on it if you want) like they are having much fun anymore.

 

I used to be able to look at the bannings and understand 100% why someone got the boot. Now its like a crap shoot if I get it or not. There appears to me to be little consistency in some bannings vs strikes....again....anyone can get kicked for any reason really....and that is Dark0ne's perogative....I just don't like the taste it leaves in my mouth.

 

So...I am glad that this image share matter has been put more clear....and I hope that it all works out. I will keep to my little corner and follow the rules like I always have...but this is no longer my favorite place to hang anymore...and that makes me really, really sad.

 

 

Thank you. You said it all. Some images will be reported because of jealousy and others will be left alone. The last part of your post is the most relevant to me though.

 

@ Rabbit 51

 

I saw your post before you removed it, so now can't quote it, and yes, I'm in total agreement.

 

 

@ ziitch

 

That isn't going to work. Go with my method (no endorsements/comments on a picture with ripped content, or have them forcefully disabled by a mod) and the imageshare isn't going to turn into a dusty barren mostly composed of subpar images of characters in poor lighting conditions and jaggies all around because all the good screenshooters went somewhere else to upload or got banned...

 

So according to your reasoning only people with the skills to post edit their images are worthy of being allowed to post them here. You don't wish to see images with jaggies, low lighting and low resolutions...well not everyone has the skills, or the will to be an elitist as your post would suggest they be. I personally don't care if people photo shop their screen shots so they no longer resemble the game, that's called art. However, your attitude once again comes off as rude and denigrating to the "lesser" among us.

 

 

@ Dark0ne

 

Truth is a lot of the moderators are on edge right now, we all have RL issues we're dealing with at the moment. Lon, Vagrant and Buddah haven't been around that much although hopefully they'll be making a return soon, I'm not going to rush them knowing how much work they've already done here, I've got lots going on in the background, Myrmaad has lots going on and Dante is a vampire for god's sake....that brings with it all sorts of problems.

 

Yes, we all understand people have real life issues and sometimes that can be reflected in online life, but Moderators are supposed to be impartial. If they allow their RL to impact on their decisions here they are no different to any other member who might be having a bad day. They should not be posting or banning people if they cannot be impartial at any given time because of RL distractions.

 

There's also the inconsistency with the Mod area. It's supposed to be a "No Warning Instant Ban area" but some people are banned outright and others are warned. Why?

 

Another thing I and I know others would like clarified is how does Tesnexus have the right to dictate what others post on their blogs and forums which can lead to being banned here. I didn't pull this information from nowhwere. Look through the bans topic and you will find at least one post I can immediately refer to made by a moderator saying exactly that.

 

In that case a person was banned here for trolling which is per the Rules, however an addition to the Moderator's post went just that bit over what should be acceptable. The banned person criticized a mod in a review on his own blog and was this was subsequently mentioned as also a reason for his removal from the site. If necessary I can provide a screen shot.

 

I also have a blog and is my business and no-one else's what I do or do not say, what I post as images or which mods I link or refer to or my opinion of them according to the TOS of my blog host.

 

EDIT: And I forgot to mention...I thought the PM system was a "private" area for people to communicate. Unless there is a reason for someone to report another or Rules are broken via abuse etc, how can it be dictated what is said between consenting adults or even non adults. It's not really private then.

 

 

@ anyone else

 

The Nexus isn't the be all and end all of mod sites despite what some seem to think. As Dark0ne and others have said before if you don't like the Rules go elsewhere which is one reason and rapidly becoming the main reason why I removed my mods and the few images I had here. If people want them they can easily be found.

 

I used to spend hours at this forum helping out people with their Oblivion game and I enjoyed it, but not anymore. One can't even join a debate without being bullied and having the topic closed because people can't control themselves.

 

If anything I say or do leads to my being banned here you can bet I won't be begging on Appeal to be re-instated.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Maigrets

[Rabbit1251]

Thank you, Maigrets, But children like me should be neither seen nor heard. It's for the best, sure'n tis.

 

PS-Miss your modding skills.

 

 

Rabbit

[myrmaad]

If you've seen a ban on "spurious" grounds, than you should ask a staff member about it via PM in a respectful tone, and you will get a respectful reply.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention...I thought the PM system was a "private" area for people to communicate. Unless there is a reason for someone to report another or Rules are broken via abuse etc, how can it be dictated what is said between consenting adults or even non adults. It's not really private then.

 

Oh so if you want to abuse someone via PM that's just your business?

 

If that's not your point I don't what it is, because you cannot be banned for "sharing" via PM, as we've stated over and over. But if that's your business, don't mention it in the forums. Simply PM the person, what is so hard about that?

 

As far as being "impartial" I've always felt that "blind justice" is not justice. All people have off days, even moderators.

 

I've always enjoyed your company, but I don't think your argument is fair. The site has grown since the "good old days". No matter what we do, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't so I will put my own head down and keep doing the best I can to listen before I act. If you think I made a bad decision, then by all means, bring it up to me and I will hear it out, but not if you're going to call me names. That's where I draw the line.

 

Rabbit, when we look at posting history, time is a good thing, a member of long standing with no problems is not going to get an immediate ban for less than suddenly advocating piracy or intentionally uploading copyright materials, things I'd guess you're safe from doing. Come on, your fear seems a bit exaggerated--to me--just a little bit? Coupled with the sarcasm, it appears to me to be attached to an agenda. Just sayin'.

 

I don't think I need to see a screencap of a ban post. I'm trying to figure out why it matters that the moderator read the person's blog, I'm certain the person getting the boot was getting it with or without the blog and sometimes the staffmember has a parting shot. That has been true for as long as I've been a member, the staff have personalities too. It sounds like the point was that the troll was trolling on their blog as well as here. So where's the injustice?

 

I reserve the right to cut anyone slack whenever I think I want to.

[ginnyfizz]

If you've seen a ban on "spurious" grounds, than you should ask a staff member about it via PM in a respectful tone, and you will get a respectful reply.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention...I thought the PM system was a "private" area for people to communicate. Unless there is a reason for someone to report another or Rules are broken via abuse etc, how can it be dictated what is said between consenting adults or even non adults. It's not really private then.

 

Oh so if you want to abuse someone via PM that's just your business?

 

If that's not your point I don't what it is, because you cannot be banned for "sharing" via PM, as we've stated over and over. But if that's your business, don't mention it in the forums. Simply PM the person, what is so hard about that?

 

As far as being "impartial" I've always felt that "blind justice" is not justice. All people have off days, even moderators.

 

I've always enjoyed your company, but I don't think your argument is fair. The site has grown since the "good old days". No matter what we do, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't so I will put my own head down and keep doing the best I can to listen before I act. If you think I made a bad decision, then by all means, bring it up to me and I will hear it out, but not if you're going to call me names. That's where I draw the line.

 

Rabbit, when we look at posting history, time is a good thing, a member of long standing with no problems is not going to get an immediate ban for less than suddenly advocating piracy or intentionally uploading copyright materials, things I'd guess you're safe from doing. Come on, your fear seems a bit exaggerated--to me--just a little bit? Coupled with the sarcasm, it appears to me to be attached to an agenda. Just sayin'.

 

I don't think I need to see a screencap of a ban post. I'm trying to figure out why it matters that the moderator read the person's blog, I'm certain the person getting the boot was getting it with or without the blog and sometimes the staffmember has a parting shot. That has been true for as long as I've been a member, the staff have personalities too. It sounds like the point was that the troll was trolling on their blog as well as here. So where's the injustice?

 

I reserve the right to cut anyone slack whenever I think I want to.

 

I hear what you are saying, myrmaad, and from what I understand the only time the staff become involved with PM's is when a PM is reported as abuse. I've had only a couple of such abusive PM's, one of which I reported and the other which I didn't, due to the fact that it was so rambling that whatever staff member had the misfortune to read it would have felt like :wallbash: as much as I did. Nevertheless, it was enough to make me refrain from posting except to say nice things about mods I like or to ask for technical/game advice.

[myrmaad]

 

I hear what you are saying, myrmaad, and from what I understand the only time the staff become involved with PM's is when a PM is reported as abuse. I've had only a couple of such abusive PM's, one of which I reported and the other which I didn't, due to the fact that it was so rambling that whatever staff member had the misfortune to read it would have felt like :wallbash: as much as I did.

 

That's right..

 

 

 

^{I sometimes think we should eliminate the debate section, but it's not my call.}

[Dark0ne]

To me this smacks of our openness and willingness to air our dirty laundry by publicising the bans we make coming back to haunt us. If we were to make the ban forums private, just for staff use, I'm pretty sure half of you wouldn't be here talking about this. Do you take a look at all the ban threads and worry for your own accounts? Because that's just silly!

 

Yes, we all understand people have real life issues and sometimes that can be reflected in online life, but Moderators are supposed to be impartial. If they allow their RL to impact on their decisions here they are no different to any other member who might be having a bad day. They should not be posting or banning people if they cannot be impartial at any given time because of RL distractions.

 

You misunderstand, I don't think I've seen a case recently where a moderator going through RL issues has not been impartial in their dealings here. Lack of impartiality means lack of fairness and that hasn't been the case. What has been the case is a few moderators being a bit more on edge, so more likely to ban people who deserve to be banned, but without giving a warning. Whether a moderator chooses to give someone a warning or not is their prerogative, often times the decision is made based on the person's past posting history and whether the moderator thinks the individual made an honest mistake or a deliberate mistake. They don't have to give that warning, but they some times do. Is this the "impartiality" you are talking about?

 

One other addition to this; how you conduct yourself in conversations with moderators goes a long way towards swaying their opinion as well. A vast majority of people who get spoken to by the moderation team seem to have a real stick up their butt about authority. They'll cuss and throw tantrums and threats and all because a moderator has asked them, politely, to stop whatever it was that was breaking the site rules. You don't understand because you don't actually get to see these conversations, but a lot of the time bans come about because the member was so damn rude in their responses to simple warnings that the moderator got fed up with them and showed them the door.

 

Another thing I and I know others would like clarified is how does Tesnexus have the right to dictate what others post on their blogs and forums which can lead to being banned here. I didn't pull this information from nowhwere. Look through the bans topic and you will find at least one post I can immediately refer to made by a moderator saying exactly that.

 

In that case a person was banned here for trolling which is per the Rules, however an addition to the Moderator's post went just that bit over what should be acceptable. The banned person criticized a mod in a review on his own blog and was this was subsequently mentioned as also a reason for his removal from the site. If necessary I can provide a screen shot.

 

I don't know what ban you're referring to (feel free to PM me a link) but I know I have banned a very small number of people (less than I can count on both hands) in the past for doing or posting things on other sites. There are two things I'll ban for in this regard; the first is publicly sharing mods that don't belong to the uploader on other sites when the author has specifically requested for their files not to be uploaded on other sites, and the other is when I come across users who have said particularly disparaging things about me or my staff. The way I see it, if you use this site but hate it then you're just being two-faced.

 

I was watching the film Anti-Trust again recently. It's a silly nerdy/geeky film about programmers. Anyway, the character who is essentially meant to be Bill Gates is talking to a young hopeful programmer and says to him:

 

"Milo I know, he thinks we've cloned too many programs and force people to buy our inferior versions of, blah blah blah ad infinitum, ad nauseum, I've heard it all before. I even understand it. It's the nature of competitive business. When you're on top people attack the quality of your product, it comes with the territory. It's when the attacks get personal; the 'Gary Winston is Satan' [the name of the character] websites, digitising my wife's face on porn star bodies....I don't like that."

 

Now, I've no wish to liken myself to that character as he turns out to be a nasty piece of work by the end, but the concept is the same. If I see people being particularly rude (note rude, not negative) about me or my staff I will do anything I can to ensure they never use these sites. And why wouldn't I?

 

It is extremely easy to attack the site on the top and to look to other sites in the community and think "yes, they've got it right, and the Nexus hasn't". That is, as Gary Winston said, the nature of the business. It's far easier for these sites to provide a better, more personal service, because they haven't gone through all the experiences that I have had to go through with these sites, yet. They're not at a point yet where every change or update is met with damning scepticism and negativity. They might get there, and I'd be happy to provide them with tips on how to avoid the pitfalls I fell in to when I reached them, as I have done for many webmasters who have sought my advice over the years.

 

When you are the "go to" site for mods you get every type of individual come to your site. You get the 4chan and Something Awful pubbies, you get the casual gamers, you get the hardcore gamers, you get the casual modders, you get the hardcore semi-professional modders...you get everyone. When you host a more niche community site you only get what that niche caters to, so if you're catering to mod authors and high quality mods then the environment is going to be that much more friendly because you're not mingling with all the other...less desirables, according to your tastes. That makes absolute sense. We've always had a strict moderation system in place because, while we get every type of individual coming to the sites, we're trying to cater for the individuals whom we value most; the modders and the mature, respectable game player who wants the mods. Up to a point this system was working brilliantly; mod authors were happy because they felt their work was being protected from the mindless trolls of the community and they were still getting great exposure for their files, they had their cake and they ate it. Somewhere down the line this attitude changed and I can't quite put my finger on where.

 

EDIT: And I forgot to mention...I thought the PM system was a "private" area for people to communicate. Unless there is a reason for someone to report another or Rules are broken via abuse etc, how can it be dictated what is said between consenting adults or even non adults. It's not really private then.

 

I don't really know what this is referring to. The only time PMs are looked at is when they are reported or when I think the individual is spreading slander about the staff.

 

One thing I will say is, if you think this site has a problem then please feel free to air it, but don't just say what's wrong without telling me how I can fix it. If you were me, what would you do? What would you change? How would you change it? Why would you change it? What affect do you think it will have on the community? Is it actually feasible? Have you taken in to account all the variables within the community and not just your own personal opinion? These are questions I have to ask myself all the time and it does get droll when people are quick to criticise but slow to offer an alternative.

[Pronam]

Somewhere down the line this attitude changed and I can't quite put my finger on where.

It's complex, maybe unavoidable. A lot of factors contributed to it and there's not a single thing you can point it at. Site wars, permission wars, trolls only increase because of indifferences that'll never cease to exist. It's mostly off-nexus .but got applied on nexus later on. It's not the sentiment of people leaving just because of trolls, but the last thing that pushed them over and edge they already considered jumping off. Even though nexus has a growth, a lot of split/torn communities formed outside of nexus because of off-nexus site wars or just failed projects with all effects of those. That causes the more niche sections and other people getting involved in 'disliking each other because 1 in that community does'. Which has to a few bannings here, but mostly to a lot of arguments/flaming between people that mostly rendered unnoticed but had the effect people left the community. A lot of niche places try to be 'competitive' to justify their existence, but on that edge it caused more problems aside from the sites that don't get along well already. As games get older they turn into a niche themselves, most people will agree that's a sad thing. In a sense it was bound to happen, yet it just increases the negative mood that's with some already. It just piles up and piles up. I'm not even mentioning half of my thoughts of the causes as I like to stay neutral at a point.

 

Shortly said, a lot of segmentation and a less social community towards each other. As the fuse is out of the bom, none is afraid to discuss and the size of the amount of a lot of different people and communities cause that there's an ongoing trouble which causes a discussion longer than it'd would have been in the past. Today, one negatively seen impulse can create a long during trouble on a lot of levels. yay! (sarcasm) The fun is that it is barely possible to see it coming. It's also impossible to meet everyone's demand, so at any level there's some agreement for everyone that the staff here can't be superhumans. (vampire excluded)

 

All I can say is that it's unwise to stop communicating. If you disagree, state it but in proper words, thoughts and know that under the misunderstandings it started on.. it might continue as you can't channel all thoughts to one line that there's an equal understanding. Understand that none can spot every single issue from all sides or even half of it. Concerning staff that'll always be present even without their RL business, same for other members. The attitude that's formed is already the base of trouble you can't evade.

 

As for nexus and discussion about nexus (not the individual issues), it's more open than you'd expect. Aside of what larger/official sites mostly do, I know a lot of niche sites that just put away discussions or move it to another section only the staff can spot, mostly causes the issue to rise again later in a worse form and people 'choosing sides' and publicly shout that everywhere. That doesn't happen here and I like that. It's the best way to approach it as it's the only way that works on the long term.

[Maigrets]

If you've seen a ban on "spurious" grounds, than you should ask a staff member about it via PM in a respectful tone, and you will get a respectful reply.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention...I thought the PM system was a "private" area for people to communicate. Unless there is a reason for someone to report another or Rules are broken via abuse etc, how can it be dictated what is said between consenting adults or even non adults. It's not really private then.

 

Oh so if you want to abuse someone via PM that's just your business?

 

If that's not your point I don't what it is, because you cannot be banned for "sharing" via PM, as we've stated over and over. But if that's your business, don't mention it in the forums. Simply PM the person, what is so hard about that?

 

As far as being "impartial" I've always felt that "blind justice" is not justice. All people have off days, even moderators.

 

I've always enjoyed your company, but I don't think your argument is fair. The site has grown since the "good old days". No matter what we do, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't so I will put my own head down and keep doing the best I can to listen before I act. If you think I made a bad decision, then by all means, bring it up to me and I will hear it out, but not if you're going to call me names. That's where I draw the line.

 

Rabbit, when we look at posting history, time is a good thing, a member of long standing with no problems is not going to get an immediate ban for less than suddenly advocating piracy or intentionally uploading copyright materials, things I'd guess you're safe from doing. Come on, your fear seems a bit exaggerated--to me--just a little bit? Coupled with the sarcasm, it appears to me to be attached to an agenda. Just sayin'.

 

I don't think I need to see a screencap of a ban post. I'm trying to figure out why it matters that the moderator read the person's blog, I'm certain the person getting the boot was getting it with or without the blog and sometimes the staffmember has a parting shot. That has been true for as long as I've been a member, the staff have personalities too. It sounds like the point was that the troll was trolling on their blog as well as here. So where's the injustice?

 

I reserve the right to cut anyone slack whenever I think I want to.

 

 

myrmaad,

I never said anything about abusing people being right and I certainly have no intention of doing it. It's been done to me and it's very unpleasant so why would I abuse someone else? What I did say was aside from abuse and breaking the Rules which rightfully should be reported and not tolerated, people should be able to have a conversation, share photos or files or their phone number with friends or whatever they wish in "private." If it's not private what is the point of calling it Private Messenger?

 

Please check what Dark0ne himself said about sharing files via PM on the 14th of this month where he stated it would definitely not be allowed. There seem to be mixed messages regarding the issue. How would anyone know unless one of the parties either requesting a mod, supplying it or providing a link reported it if it's supposed to be a secure private messaging system. If they were one of the people requesting a ripped mod they would be a bit silly to report it after getting the file or a link I would have thought.

 

Unfortunately, since PM's are supposed to be private there's no way to know if people are sharing other illegal or suspect files or information either unless someone finds out accidentally or one of the parties reports it. That applies to piracy as well as ripped mods and who knows what other things people share.

 

I never called you names either myrmaad, and I don't know where you got that idea. My post had nothing to do with you or your actions.

 

Dark0ne:

You're quite correct. I guess it is two faced to criticize a site I "used" to like and was a very big part of my online life because I don't particularly like some of the changes that have been made. I say "used" to like because it's not the friendly open place it was. If I were to criticize you, the site or it's moderators and members elsewhere and if action was taken against me here because of it then it proves a point that there's no privacy or free speech on the Net which we all know is the case anyway. However, to ban or chastize someone because of it is pretty thin skinned if that's their only crime.

 

To me this smacks of our openness and willingness to air our dirty laundry by publicising the bans we make coming back to haunt us. If we were to make the ban forums private, just for staff use, I'm pretty sure half of you wouldn't be here talking about this. Do you take a look at all the ban threads and worry for your own accounts? Because that's just silly!

 

Why do normal members even have to know who gets banned and why? Is it anyone else's business really? It's like a shame and blame thread which I do admit to reading, so I'm not blameless either. If one reason is to show how many people are silly enough to ask about piracy or are trolling etc, it doesn't make any difference as it still happens. And, no, I'm not worried about my account. If it's forfeit because of my actions at any time, that's my fault. I assume.