On OBL, USA and Murder

[roguim]

Bin Ladens terrorist pals have confimed his death anyway so that should be enough to put any doubts to rest.

Maybe the Us Government is afraid that a photo of OBL corpse should have a similar effect of the photos of Che corpse, that became a symbol and transformed him (Che) In a Martyr of "the fight against the imperialism" ( the fact the the corpse was in a crucified position only help it).

 

About Bin ladens death as it pointed he was not a civilian but a leader of an organizations that murdered thousands of civilians ( not only westerners but many Muslim too ). So i doubt he was surrender and if he was captured alive, where would put him? in what prison in what country? i mean no country and no one of his family want his body, who would want to take care of him when he waited for trial.

[Sync182]

A line from a Star Trek:TNG episode:

 

"As a prisoner he would have been a focus for violence from his followers. At least his death might see the violence fall, if only a little."

 

By the way - I do not claim my quotes in this thread to be exact quotations, but they are close and do carry the intended message of the original quote/line.

[Balagor]

I promised my self not to participate in debates anymore, but this I can not let be.

Those who know me know that I am against war, I am the Ghandi freak. Yet I welcome the killing of OBL, because his war is not a heroic war, it has no cause, he killed INNONCENTS, and he has admitted it all in public videos. Further he was sitting there with his holy, and crying eyes, telling that he was not at ease until the last American was dead, and the world society was Islamic.

I am a peace lover, and don´t like war, but as allready stated, this is DIRTY war, and all tricks are allowed. Those who have any qualms with that, and or problems with casulties, should try to go as a tourist to the Peshawar provins in Pakistan. They have approx. one terror bomb a week. Go there and see for your self, see all the men, women and children, killed or crippled, and tell me if terrorists still have rights.

When I was 20 years and a hippie, many years ago, I was also shouting "Yanks out of Nam" in front of their embassey. I have grown older, and less naive, and found that the world is more complex than the first look.

So stop harass the "Yanks", when there is a lot of real evil to go for in this world.

[McclaudEagle]

It is highly unlikely that Osama would have gone quietly with US troops to stand trial and eventually end up in a prison. That point alone is reason enough to have at least incapacitated him. However, as stated, Osama put up resistance even while unarmed, and there were also two identified AK-47's that he could have picked up and used against the arresting troops. The problem with capturing someone as high profile as Osama is that there's a high chance something could have gone wrong, such as ambushes, attempted prison releases, etc.

 

As for the photos of Osama, I personally don't think they should be released. All it would achieve is giving Osama "martyr" status and also give the al-Qaeda some available propaganda. His place of burial has also come under some controversy. Many believed he should have had a proper land burial. Again, that has added problems. If found, people could either use it as a shrine, or vandalize it. The biggest problem with it is that it's unlikely any country would want his body buried in their land. At least the people aboard the Vinson gave him a proper Islamic burial, even if it was at sea.

 

As for human rights groups...in my opinion, if you murder just one person, you are no longer human and as such, have no access to human rights.

 

USA murders innocent people?

 

1. The acts of the US Military or its Government do not speak for the entire USA, or its people.

 

2. Most acts of "murder" are collateral damage, either in fire fights or bombing. Yes, there has been a lot of controversy over the use of drones, especially in Pakistan, but as sad as it is to say it, these things happen.

 

I'd like someone to find me a nation that has been involved in warfare that hasn't killed innocent people. I personally doubt with almost absolute certainty that no one here will ever find one.

 

As said before, the media is responsible for a lot of the problems we have today, especially when they throw around numbers and terms they have no clue over or lack any evidence.

[HellsMaster]

I agree, DarkeWolf, i do not condemn all Americans because of the act of the Governments or the Army.

 

 

 

 

@Sync

 

I did not invite you in the thread, if you do not like it, take your trolling away.

 

 

 

 

@Aurelius

 

Of course, really, do you think i am that ignorant? Happens in all country's and i am not a tad bit disappointed by the act of the French, they are French after all. My issue is how people are ranting over OBL death and his bloody atrocious murder while their own government Kill Innocent Civilians in "Collateral Damage". Also, great French, the saying is spot on. I have not replied as I simply had other thing to do.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Also, this is not a movie, its reality, so what is with the movie quotes?

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2011 by HellsMaster

[JimboUK]

A line from a Star Trek:TNG episode:

 

"As a prisoner he would have been a focus for violence from his followers. At least his death might see the violence fall, if only a little."

 

By the way - I do not claim my quotes in this thread to be exact quotations, but they are close and do carry the intended message of the original quote/line.

 

Or he's gone from a figurehead to a martyr and is just as dangerous. It's not like he controlled Al-Qaedas activities from some Islamic Batcave, they are autonomous cells who do their own thing. Anyway Al-Qaeda isn't really a group, it's a fundamentalist ideology followed by various loons.

[IndorilTheGreat]

<snip>

@Sync

 

I did not invite you in the thread, if you do not like it, take your trolling away.

<snip>

 

I did not see any trolling going on, but that is just me. :unsure:

 

Plus, one does not need to be "invited" to a thread; if one has an opinion, then they have the right to express it (just like I am about to do :happy: ).

 

On-Topic:

 

Osama Bin-Laden was as good as dead about six years ago (at least in my opinion). He (did not seem to be) leading any major uprisings; correction - he did not seem to be publicly active in any uprisings. There were suicide bombers, which I am sure OBL had a part in, but he was not out there going, "Look at what I'm doing."

 

This is understandable, as I would not want to be out in public if I were one of the most wanted men in the world.

 

However, saying what I did above, I am... at rest, now that OBL is dead. I will not say that I rejoice in his death, as rejoicing over a life being lost is against my morals, but I am certainly glad that it is behind us (for the most part).

 

This whole event brings to mind a famous quote: "It is not the destination, but the journey that is important."

 

Or something like that.

Edited May 11, 2011 by IndorilTheGreat

[dazzerfong]

One anomaly:

 

Since it is technically a 'War' as in 'War against Terror', didn't either the Hague or Geneva Conventions prevent unarmed combatants from being killed? I mean, technically, he was unarmed during the whole time, yes, he had a few weapons hanging around, but he didn't carry it.

 

I'm not defending Osama's death or anything, so please don't get me wrong.

[McclaudEagle]

As I've already said, bringing in someone like Osama alive could cause even more problems and there's always the chance he could escape and disappear again. A few problems I could list would be:

 

Ambush on the military transport convoy carrying him away.

Attack on the courtroom he could have been tried in (which I believe was going to be in New York City).

Attack on the prison he's sent to.

Terrorist attacks in demand of Osama's release

Possible corruption with prison guards, troops, etc under the "release me and I'll pay you lots of money".

 

Those are only a few of the possible hundred of difficulties with arresting and trying someone. Yes, it could have all been done on some remote military base, but it wouldn't completely eliminate his chance of escape.

 

As for his death, the only people who will truly know exactly what happened or why would be certain people in the Government and the soldiers who actually carried out the shooting. What we know is that he was unarmed, put up some resistance and shot dead, but they never go into specifics, and as such it makes it difficult to determine if he truly was able to be arrested or not.

[Lisnpuppy]

One anomaly:

 

Since it is technically a 'War' as in 'War against Terror', didn't either the Hague or Geneva Conventions prevent unarmed combatants from being killed? I mean, technically, he was unarmed during the whole time, yes, he had a few weapons hanging around, but he didn't carry it.

 

I'm not defending Osama's death or anything, so please don't get me wrong.

 

I have no doubt that the person who admitted to doing things the US and most other nations find to be acts of terrorism, had precluded him from being considered or named an unarmed combatant buy all except those with the most loose of definitions of what he was.